Word for Word: That's Dr. Wyatt Earp to you

From a taped interview of Dr. Richard Carmona after he shot and killed a man in Tucson, Ariz., in September 1999.

Carmona -- whom President Bush nominated last week to be U.S. surgeon general -- is a trauma surgeon, a University of Arizona surgery professor and a member of the Pima County Sheriff's Department SWAT team. A high school dropout who later earned his GED and other degrees, he once rappelled from a helicopter to rescue a paramedic involved in a helicopter crash.

In the 1999 incident, Carmona happened upon a traffic accident in which one of the drivers involved had started attacking another. Carmona confronted the attacker, Jean Pierre Lafitte. Lafitte fired at him, grazing his scalp in the same place where Carmona had been wounded while serving as a Green Beret in Vietnam.

Carmona returned fire with his .45-caliber Colt police pistol, fatally wounding Lafitte, who, it turned out, was wanted in the killing of his father earlier that day. A national police organization named Carmona a "Top Cop" for his heroism.

In this transcript, made a couple of hours after the shooting, Carmona describes the incident to investigators.

-- MIKE WILSON, Floridian editor

THIS IS DETECTIVE THOMPSON, 23494. I'M SPEAKING TO RICHARD H. CARMONA REFERENCE CASE NUMBER 99 09 18 0673. WE'RE IN MY UNMARKED POLICE VEHICLE PARKED OFF THE ROAD OFF OF GRANT AND CAMPBELL. PRESENT ARE DETECTIVE PATTY AMADO, 759, FROM (the Pima County Sheriff's Office), ATTORNEY MIKE PICCARRETA AND MIKE STORRIE.

Q. For purposes of the tape please state your full name and spell your last name.

A. Richard Carmona C-A-R-M-0-N-A.

Q. Okay, may I call you Richard?

A. Or Rich is fine.

Q. Rich, okay. Um, you were involved in a shooting incident earlier today at the location of Grant and Martin, actually in between Martin and Campbell. Uh, your capacity -- actually you're a doctor, is that correct?

A. I'm a deputy sheriff for the Pima County Sheriff's Department. I happen to be a physician also.

Q. I need you to tell me what happened, to go ahead and start from the beginning, and then if I have any questions I'll ask you the questions.

A. At approximately, uh, 6 p.m. I was proceeding west on Grant through the intersection at Campbell and Grant, and as I looked to my left, I noticed what appeared to be a multiple vehicle accident. It appeared to me that it had just happened because, uh, there were still a couple of people sitting at the curb. I saw a lady walking away looking as though she may have been bruised, so-called walking wounded. And as I assessed the scene I saw three cars, uh, the one in the middle, which was a pickup, appeared to be the most severely damaged. So being that I was the first responder, I called in to alert communications that there was an auto accident, probably with injuries, and to notify (Tucson police) and dispatch (paramedics).

So I stopped my unmarked car in the middle lane parallel to the gray pickup truck and activated my lights and stepped out of the car. I walked directly toward the door of the pickup, the driver's side of the pickup truck, because I saw what appeared to be a subject slumped over the steering wheel. I thought this was probably the most severely injured patient and he hadn't moved so I was going to go render first aid.

There were two gentlemen near the back of that light car, I think it's a Cadillac, and they started screaming at me, "He's got a gun he tried to shoot us, he's got a gun he tried to shoot us." So I was, you know, startled. I dove back into my unmarked car, I floored the accelerator (moving the car away from the pickup truck), came to a quick halt, reached underneath the front seat on the driver's side where I keep my duty weapon, and drew my .45. I exited the vehicle and at this point I had a lot of people running at me.

I directed them, "Go back, get behind a car everybody, get down," and I then turned toward this gray vehicle and began to shout commands to whoever was in there to "come out and let me see your hands." And I did that numerous times. I had my door open and I tried to get as much cover and concealment as I could. . . . Then he stepped out . . . As he rotated I saw the weapon in his hand and then he rotated to me full-face, so he's facing straight on to me and he's got the weapon . . . and he's just rocking.

I kept repeating the commands, and after numerous commands he acted as if he was going to comply. He started to bend at the waist. . . . The weapon (starts) going toward the ground, he starts bending over toward the ground, and I thought, Okay, great, he's going to comply. So I keep shouting commands, "Put the weapon on the ground turn around, put your hands on the on the car."

In just an instant, as the weapon was about to hit the ground, he snapped up and . . . I fired. Simultaneously I felt something whiz by me and just graze me or something, so I got down very low and he was still standing.

I fired again and I fired several times, I believe, until he hit the ground. When he stopped moving I stopped firing. . . . I guess during that point I was on the radio also 'cause I called in 9-9-8 and then I called in a 9-9-9 because the people behind me kept screaming about a gun and I wasn't sure -- did they mean there was somebody else? . . . I advanced to the back of my car because I knew I only had one magazine. I didn't have another magazine.

I opened my trunk and my SWAT gear is there. I . . . was getting ready to reload and that's right as the TPD guys came up. . . . I said, "Okay, the scene is yours," and I just dropped the weapon in the trunk and I backed away and then they took it after that.

Q. Okay, uh, what is a 9-9-8?

A. Uh code 9-9-8 is an officer-involved shooting.

Q. Okay and 9-9-9?

A. It's the highest priority call emergency to assist an officer.

Q. Okay.

A. A very, uh, dangerous situation.

Q. Okay, do you know how many shots you fired?

A. No ma'am. I fired several but I don't know the exact number.

Q. Okay, and initially when you saw the woman limp away, did it look like she was in a hurry to leave?

A. She was moving quickly. She was moving quickly and there was a lot of milling around here. . . . I remember the two gentlemen because I feel that they probably saved my life. If it weren't for them screaming "He has a gun" I would have opened the door thinking he was an injured individual and probably been shot.

Q. (As you're approaching the man in the pickup), is he saying anything?

A. Didn't say a word. Never said a word. . . . It was an eerie stare. He just locked on me . . . I just see those eyes just piercing at me and he just stayed there like this, rocking. . . .

Q. At what point does he start to raise the weapon?

A. . . . I was led into what I would guess is a false sense of security, because he bent over and he starts to place the weapon on the ground. . . . I think he was probably just a couple inches from the ground . . . and then in a split second he just did this, and the muzzle was coming up. And I think probably about the time the muzzle got almost at his waist is probably when I fired. I'm sure I hit him. . . . He staggered. I pulled the trigger and hit him that's when I felt, you know, I just -- ching! -- just (felt) something go right by my scalp.

Q. After the TPD officer or officers came to the scene, was there any time that you went over and touched the suspect?

A. Never. I stayed away specifically. I just covered him until the TPD officer came and relieved me and I backed away. I never got close to him.

Q. And by covering you mean you kept your weapon --

A. My weapon on him. Even though he wasn't moving I just kept my weapon on him.

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