Word for word: Those problematical panties

By MIKE WILSON, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published May 21, 2002

As it did in the Bill Clinton-Monica Lewinsky scandal, thong-style underwear is playing a role in the prosecution of Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge Charles Cope.

The question this time: Did the judge see a thong or didn't he?

The state Judicial Qualifications Commission is investigating Cope's conduct with two women he met while attending a judicial conference in Carmel, Calif., in April 2001. He goes on trial before the JQC on June 24.

California prosecutors have also charged him with five misdemeanors -- battery, prowling, peering into an inhabited dwelling, petty theft and aggravated trespassing. His criminal trial is set for July 29.

Cope met the women, a 31-year-old veterinarian, and her mother, a doctor, outside their hotel room late one evening. All three say they were drunk. Cope said in his deposition that the younger woman, Lisa V. Jeanes, later accompanied him to his room. They did not have sex, but Jeanes took off her clothes, he said.

Cope said he saw her thong underwear and it was either red or black.

Jeanes denied taking off her clothes. She said Cope groped her on the beach and used a stolen hotel key to try to get into her room the next night.

What follows are partial transcripts of Jeanes' and Cope's depositions. Cope was represented by Tampa lawyer Robert Merkle. The JQC special counsel who questioned Cope is John Mills. Jeanes' attorney is Paul Kemp.

-- MIKE WILSON, Floridian editor

MERKLE: What were you wearing that night (the night she met Cope)?

JEANES: Sweat pants, blue sweat pants, a T-shirt and a blue sweater, tennis shoes.

Q. You were wearing thong underwear, were you not?

A. No, I was not wearing thong underwear at Carmel with my mother.

Q. Do you have thong underwear?

A. I do have probably several pairs, four pairs maybe at the most.

Q. And the color of those thong underwear are black and red, aren't they?

A. No, I don't have -

MR. KEMP: Objection. Unless you had those with you in Carmel I direct you not to answer. I'm not going to have you go into the color of her underwear if they're not relevant to this case.

BY MR. MERKLE: Is there a reason why you wouldn't wear thong underwear in Carmel because your mother was there?

A. Well, there's a reason -- I only wear thong underwear at certain times, maybe Valentine's Day, out on a date, not going to Carmel with my mom for two days.

Q. Was there a reason that your mother's presence impaired or caused you to choose not to wear thong underwear?

A. Absolutely not.

MR. MILLS: Objection.

MR. KEMP: I object.

MR. MILLS: Mr. Merkle, if you want to give some suggestion of why that might be relevant. I don't want to be objecting if you've got proper essence to be asking this but it's beyond me right now.

BY MR. MERKLE: You said you would not wear thong underwear in Carmel because your mother was there.

A. No, you're misunderstanding me.

Q. I see.

A. I'm saying that I have no -- I find thong underwear is kind of a sexy underwear. I'm not going to Carmel to have a sexy evening with my mother, okay, so I took -- I went running. We went sight-seeing. I took normal cotton underwear. I did not take any thong underwear with me. I guarantee you 100 percent I did not have a thong in Carmel, and I don't own any pair of panties that are black and red.

Q. No, black or red.

A. Black or red. Well, I have black underwear.

MR. MILLS: This is just getting ridiculous.

MR. MERKLE: Counsel --

MR. MILLS: Do you want to show some relevance?

MR. MERKLE: Your position here quite frankly is ludicrous.

MR. MILLS: Well, if you will explain the relevance. I don't see any -- all I see is you harassing an innocent victim here about her underwear habits.

MR. MERKLE: Judge Cope will testify under oath, counsel -- and this is not harassment and you know it.

MR. MILLS: Well, if you'll tell me what he's going to testify to then I won't say anything.

MR. MERKLE: You have already been told.

MR. MILLS: I don't know what you're going to say. You've told me so many different things and changed so many different times I want you to say it on the record so that we know if we have -- if you have a proper basis to ask these kind of questions.

MR. MERKLE: You, sir, are a liar.

MR. MILLS: Okay, fine.

MR. KEMP: Wait, wait, this tone is getting way out of hand here. Let's object, back off, focus on the facts that occurred at that time and not start name-calling or all this is going to stop. We're going to go across the street (and get a judge to resolve the dispute), okay?

BY MR. MERKLE: Judge Cope will testify in this case that you were wearing thong underwear that night. Is that a lie?

A. That's a lie.

During Cope's deposition, Mills produced a photograph and tried to show it to the judge.

MR. MERKLE: What is this supposed to be, counsel?

MR. MILLS: A red thong.

MR. MERKLE: What is this supposed to be? Who is it a photograph of?

MR. MILLS: I'll ask the questions.

MR. MERKLE: No. I want to know what this is first.

MR. MILLS: Well, I'm not going to tell you. I'm going to ask questions.

MR. MERKLE: Then I'm going to object to any reference to that exhibit if -

MR. MILLS: I'm going to see if he can authenticate the exhibit. And if he can't, he can't.

MR. MERKLE: Authenticate it. For the record, I have what appears to be here a copy of a commercial photograph of --

MR. MILLS: You don't need to say for the record. It's in the record.

MR. MERKLE: What's in the record?

MR. MILLS: This exhibit. I just put it in the record. It's exhibit whatever.

MR. MERKLE: Well, I'm going to describe the exhibit in the record. It appears to be a commercial photograph of a woman apparently wearing a pinkish type thong type either bathing suit or underwear. And that's all it appears to be. And if there's --

MR. MILLS: Are you finished testifying? I'm going to ask him what he thinks this is to see whether he's ever seen a thong or not, and you're here describing it. And I think that that's prejudicial to me asking him these questions, and I strongly object and I ask you to be quiet.

MR. MERKLE: Why don't you ask him --

MR. MILLS: Limit what you say. If you want to object -

MR. MERKLE: Why don't you ask him --

MR. MILLS: -- to a question based on the form of the question --

THE WITNESS: Do you want me to leave the room?

MR. MILLS: -- I would like you to do that. If you would like to instruct him not to answer because of a privilege --

MR. MERKLE: Leave the room, Judge, please.

MR. MILLS: No, I'm not excusing the witness.

MR. MERKLE: I'm excusing him for a minute while we have this conversation.

MR. MILLS: Are you directing the witness to leave this deposition?

MR. MERKLE: While we have this conversation, yes.

MR. MILLS: You're directing a witness to leave while I have a question?

MR. MERKLE: I'm directing the witness to leave while we have this discussion. Please leave the room.

Cope leaves. The lawyers continued to bicker. The transcript of their argument is six pages long. Finally, Cope returned.

MR. MILLS: I'm showing you Exhibit No. 7. Can you tell me what you see in that picture?

A. The middle part of a female.

Q. Do you recognize what that female is wearing?

MR. MERKLE: Object to the form.

THE WITNESS: It appears to be underwear.

MR. MILLS: Is that a thong?

MR. MERKLE: Object to the form.

THE WITNESS: It appears to be -- could be.

MR. MILLS: Does that look like the thong that you said you saw Lisa Jeanes wearing?

A. I saw it from a different -- I don't mean -- I saw it from a different perspective.

Q. I understand.

A. Do you want to give me a turn around of this picture from the behind? And I can answer that question.

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