State: With cameras away, Bush and McBride don't play nice

ORLANDO -- Republican Gov. Jeb Bush and Democratic challenger Bill McBride engaged in a wide-ranging, contentious debate on live radio Tuesday that brought the simmering animosity of their campaigns bubbling to the surface.

Bush hammered away at his main criticism of McBride, that he's vague and unwilling to say how he would finance a costly class-size initiative.

McBride, meanwhile, veered from his almost single-minded focus on education to complain about the economy, mirroring a trend nationally for Democrats. He portrayed the governor as out of touch with average voters, who he said are worse off today than four years ago.

Both also used the debate to answer each other's attacks, a departure from their first debate three weeks ago. Bush expressed regret for saying he had "devious plans" to deal with the class-size initiative, while McBride declared he was proud to be a lawyer and called on Bush to "raise his game."

At times, they seemed to be living in different states.

Bush talked of a Florida that leads the nation in job growth and a government that is fiscally robust thanks to conservative leadership.

"We've cut taxes and made regulations better for business so they can create jobs," Bush said.

McBride talked of new jobs that pay wages so low people must work two or three jobs to make ends meet, as well as a looming billion-dollar budget shortfall exacerbated by Bush's obsession with tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy. He told of working families digging into their savings, and the high cost of prescription drugs.

"I understand how hard it is to make a buck," said McBride, a Tampa lawyer. "I've done that. I've worked for wages."

The governor said growth has been managed well on his watch. McBride suggested Floridians should look around them at the ugly sprawl.

Bush pointed to rising student achievement, the result of standardized testing and increased school spending. "It took a generation of neglect to get where we were in 1998, and our reforms with . . . high expections for every child will take another generation," Bush said.

McBride cited low teacher pay, a testing system that punishes poorly performing schools and cuts in summer school. "The truth is the public schools are in crisis," he said. "We're losing teachers to Georgia and Alabama where they are . . . paid better."

The hourlong debate was broadcast at 11 a.m. on about 30 radio stations around the state. During the first half, the candidates took questions from a half-dozen audience members chosen at random. Then they took questions from journalists.

With just three weeks to go, new polls show Bush clutching a slim lead, a much closer race than expected just six months ago. The McBride campaign, meanwhile, touted its poll showing a tie, with 6 percent of voters undecided.

Florida's Radio Networks, the sponsor, estimated the debate reached up to 1-million listeners, a fraction of the number expected to watch the final debate, scheduled for 7 p.m. Tuesday in Orlando. NBC's Tim Russert will moderate.

As expected, the governor was characteristically poised and comfortable. McBride, a political rookie, seemed more at ease than he did at the first debate. In that encounter, televised live from Jacksonville, McBride turned virtually every question back to education.

On Tuesday, McBride broadened his platform, while the governor kept returning to a single issue: a popular amendment on the Nov. 5 ballot that would force the state to reduce class sizes.

In response to a question about traffic, for example, Bush said: "If you allow for these massive spending increases that are in the plan Mr. McBride supports, it will make it harder to spend money on things like roads."

In another exchange, Bush warned the amendment would "break the back of many people who are a paycheck or two" from financial ruin.

Bad-mouthing the amendment is risky for Bush, since polls show an overwhelming majority of voters support it. McBride is among them, but Bush noted repeatedly Tuesday that his opponent hasn't said how he would pay for it.

"This is so large that taxes would go up and we'll have diminished teacher quality," the governor said. "To say we'll sit around a table and figure this out is irresponsible, Bill."

"The governor is just dead wrong," McBride said. He referred to Bush's recent gaffe in which Bush said he had "devious plans" for dealing with the amendment.

Bush, who had explained he was being sarcastic, said for the first time Tuesday that he regretted the remark. He also said he "hadn't meant any harm" by suggesting he had "juicy details" about the sexual orientation of the women who had cared for Rilya Wilson, the Miami girl missing for more than a year from state custody. The women have been charged with fraud.

That led to their lone clash on social issues. In response to a question, Bush said he supports a state law barring gays from adopting children.

Instead, children should be adopted only by "a loving couple that's a man and a wife."

McBride called it discriminatory, and noted only two states have a similar law. "It's not the American way, and it's not the right way," he said.

The candidates also disagreed sharply on taxes. Bush has made cutting taxes, including a $262-million corporate tax cut this year, a priority, and he said the state's tax structure is fine.

McBride favors ending some sales tax exemptions to help pay for schools and social services. He said he does not favor lifting tax exemptions on services, including accounting and legal fees.

Bush pounced. "The only part I find amusing . . . is you've taken lawyers off the table. I don't understand that, since you are one."

The governor has criticized McBride for being a "corporate lawyer," and when it was time for him to answer the next question, it appeared McBride had heard enough.

"I'm proud of being a lawyer, governor. I went to school for the right reasons, and I've helped people as a lawyer," he said.

"Good," Bush said.

"Taking a shot at lawyers, is probably a little bit -- you need to raise your game a little bit."

"I think it's a conflict," Bush said.

What they said

"I'm sorry that teachers are teaching to the test. That's not the appropriate use of the FCAT. . . . Talk to the good teachers, the teachers of the years, and they'll tell you you don't need to teach to the test. You can have a . . . curriculum where you turn kids on and they can do well on the FCAT."

-- Bush to a Melbourne high school student who was chosen from the audience to ask a question and complained about how the FCAT is used.

* * *

"I think you should follow Gov. Bush's advice and talk to the teachers of Florida. The teachers of Florida know this isn't working.

"A standardized test shouldn't be determinant of anything other than to find where kids are, and then you put your resources in to help them. The governor's plan has been reverse that.

"You score higher on the FCATs . . . they put more money in, and less into the schools that need the most help."

-- McBride, in response

* * *

"Because of our stewardship, we have reserves that are built up that will allow us to get through tough economic times. . . . The government itself has shrunk while our services have increased.

"Of all the 50 states, we're one of three or four that has actually had in real terms an increase in funding for public schools."

-- Bush on the state budget

* * *

"All across Florida, programs were cut. In most communities, and I ask anyone to check their own community, did they close and cut summer school classes, did the Bright Future scholarships that they promised kids go away?

-- McBride's response

* * *

"Exemptions should be periodically reviewed. It's fundamentally fairness. I will consult with and I will seek advice from organizations like the Florida Chamber of Commerce, Florida Tax Watch, from organizations that spend a lot of time on this as I have in the past."

-- McBride on ending some sales tax exemptions, which amount to more than the entire state budget

* * *

"While you're consulting with the Florida Chamber maybe you should seek advice on the class size initiative because they oppose it. Looking at tax exemptions to raise taxes is a tax increase."

-- Bush's response

* * *

"We have fulfilled our commitment to the people of this state. My opponent doesn't see that as a necessity. He's offered empty promises. And those promises . . . are going to cost billions of dollars. There's a better way which is to focus on school improvement, reading, reduction in crime, economy, economic recovery."

-- Bush in his closing statement

* * *

"This governor wants to preserve the status quo. I understand the problems in Florida. . . . We need to solve problems with people. . . .

"Everybody has room at the table, no matter who you are. Being governor is being the head of the Florida family."

-- McBride in his closing statement

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Lucy Morgan

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