They talked about stress, breaking points, coping, suicide and being kind to others. As community forums go, this was tame.
It was Thursday morning in the Centennial Library in Holiday, and the discussion leader this day was John Gould, a former chaplain in a psychiatric facility.
He makes the weekly drive from Land O'Lakes to participate in the club called News and Views. Its roster numbers 40 people, most from west Pasco, with about six coming from Palm Harbor and Tarpon Springs.
Twenty attended last week. They meet faithfully each week, with the first Thursday morning of the month set aside for a breakfast session.
At first glance, it could be any social group. They pass a tin can around at the outset, collecting $1 to pay for the monthly meals. A gavel, timer and a copy of Roberts Rules of Order sit on the head table.
There are twice-a-year elections at the twice-a-year banquets. They have trouble recruiting officers. Nobody wants to be secretary because of the detailed note-taking requirements.
But it is unique. Its sole function is to provide a forum for exchanging ideas. Since the first of the year the group has discussed gardening, inventions, Wal-Mart, personal credit, the environment, advance care planning, abuses of the Americans with Disabilities Act, teaching in 1950s Florida, class-action lawsuits and professional sports.
On March 27, they talked about the war in Iraq and the perception of the group changed dramatically. At least in the eyes of one of the participants. Sylvia Wolan, retired police official from New Jersey and formerly active in the Pasco County Republican Party, left the meeting during the discussion and shortly afterward fired off a letter to the Times characterizing members of News and Views as dissidents and as anti-Americans spouting hate messages.
"The only discussion has been to encourage dissension and contempt for our government and our elected officials," Wolan wrote in the letter published April 15. She encouraged the public to call for county commissioners to ban the group from meeting at the public library.
At least News and Views is in famous company, joining musical group Dixie Chicks and actors Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins as accused traitors.
Rebuttal was swift. Members defended themselves as believers of the First Amendment. Strangers authored letters encouraging the group to persevere.
"This could be the best thing to happen to us. It will light a fire under people," incoming president Dorothy Byrns told a fellow member Thursday.
Wolan, in an interview, didn't back down.
"All I did was assert my First Amendment rights. If it works for them, why doesn't it work for me?"
She believes the group is unproductive because it limits its activity to talking, instead of seeking greater political influence. She also maintains the debates denigrate into name calling - an allegation other members dispute.
Larry Hill said he stopped going to meetings after the 2000 presidential election.
"After a while it was the Thursday morning anti-George Bush club," said Hill, who joined originally in 1983.
Like any viable discussion group, someone provides a counterpoint.
"Somebody once said we're nothing but a bunch of liberals," said Gould. "But we're not all liberals. Stan (current president Stan Lachute) is right wing and he believes Bush walks on water."
There is no official start date listed in the club's archives. Newspaper accounts indicate a man named Donald Ames founded the group in 1980 when he and a handful of friends took turns meeting at each other's houses. You could talk about everything except religion and politics.
As more members joined, the group adopted by-laws, moved to the Elfers Senior Center and then landed at its current home at the library.
Wolan remains on the club roster. She once gave a presentation on how the group shouldn't tackle controversial topics. But that contradicts the by-laws which state the club is a forum to discuss any subject "in an atmosphere of respect for diversity of opinion."
The group is almost exclusively retirees whose former professions include teacher, lawyer, police administrator, journalist, salesman, engineer and social worker. Two are from Great Britain, another from Ireland.
Each Thursday, the presenter is allowed 20 minutes to discuss a topic of his or her choosing. (No advance notice of the subject is given to the group.) Each member is given three minutes to comment on the topic of the day.
Though it was placid last week, the group assured that its debates do become heated, particularly the talks about the war.
Consider it a weekly town hall meeting without the town. It serves some as a support group, gives others the opportunity to exercise their minds, and allows each to learn from others' experiences and viewpoints.
"I'm attracted to this group and I love to come here because we do have freedom to bare our troubles, our joys, whatever," said Maureen Fortner.
The debates, she said, aren't personal.
"There isn't an individual in here that I'm not able to give a loving, warm hug to. . . . It's good for us. We need to hear the other side always."