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How bad are kids? Just ask teachers

A third of bay area educators say discipline is a problem, and many say principals don’t back them up. Middle schools are the toughest.

By DONNA WINCHESTER
Published May 17, 2006

After nine years in the classroom, Charlie Mitchell has learned a few things about middle school students.
Many of them are impolite. They are often profane. And some will throw things at him when his back is turned, including pennies, batteries and pencils.

“This isn’t your granddaddy’s classroom,” said Mitchell, who said he has been cursed at, verbally abused and physically threatened during his tenure at Tarpon Springs Middle School.

Mitchell, 60, said he never dreamed things had gotten so rough in the classroom until he left the field of finance to became a teacher.

“If I had any idea of what goes on in many classrooms, I’d have sued the School Board,” he said.

Mitchell is not the only educator to get an eye-opening experience. A St. Petersburg Times poll of Pinellas and Hillsborough County teachers shows that almost one in three strongly agrees or somewhat agrees that discipline is a problem in their classroom.

Those who describe their schools as “high poverty” are three times more likely to feel that way than those who describe their schools as “middle to upper class.”

And close to one in two Pinellas County teachers say they have felt physically threatened by a student. That compares to about one in three in Hillsborough.

Compounding the problem, many teachers say, is the way principals deal with discipline problems. Thirty percent of the teachers surveyed say administrators take meaningful action on student referrals “only sometimes,” “hardy ever” or “never.”

“I had this kid who was constantly leaning across my desk issuing threats,” said Karen Colton, a teacher at Jefferson High in West Tampa.

 “After I wrote the third referral, the assistant principal said, 'We can’t do anything. Our hands are tied because this kid has emotional problems.’ ”

The poll, conducted between May 1 and May 3, surveyed 701 of the 21,000 teachers in both counties. The results are accurate to within plus or minus 4 percentage points.

Teachers who strongly agreed discipline was a problem were fairly evenly distributed across elementary, middle and high schools. But the majority of those who said they have felt threatened by a student were middle school teachers. Many were the same teachers who said they receive little or no support from their principals when it comes to discipline.

Nancy Zambito, deputy superintendent for Pinellas schools, noted that a majority of teachers polled in both counties — 65 percent — said discipline was not a problem in their classrooms. But she found the number of teachers who felt otherwise troubling.

She was especially disturbed by the high number of Pinellas teachers who said they have felt physically threatened by a student: 45 percent, compared with 34 percent in Hillsborough.

“That just really surprises me,” Zambito said. “We do have teachers who are hit or elbowed occasionally when they step in to break up a student altercation. But I can remember only one instance where a teacher was hit on purpose.”

Not all of the discipline problems are severe, teachers say. But that doesn’t make them less distracting.

Adam Wood, a first-year music teacher at Lincoln Elementary School in Plant City, said most of the issues in his classroom revolve around children who refuse to listen or pay attention.

“It’s the same kids acting up all the time,” said Wood, 23. “Kids tend to be serial offenders.”

Colton, the Jefferson High teacher, said she spends a lot of time trying to keep kids on task and in their seats. The “never-ending series of annoyances and distractions” is very disruptive for children who are trying to learn, Colton said.

Trying to reach parents of disruptive children doesn’t always work, she said.

“They’re usually responsive,” she said. “But oftentimes, I can’t get them. They have no phone, or the number I have is old.”

Edward Langer, a geography teacher at Buchanan Middle School in North Tampa who is thinking of becoming an administrator, said parents don’t always want teachers disciplining their children.

“The school system wants you to discipline kids,” Langer said. “But they don’t want you to alienate the parents.”

Few of the teachers who reported egregious discipline problems — verbal threats, destruction of property or physical assaults — would allow their names to be used for publication. One Pinellas County elementary teacher who said she has felt threatened by a student said she feared she would lose her job if she talked about it.

Teachers who indicated their principals fail to take action on referrals also declined to give their names, though several said they didn’t blame their administrators. School-based leaders are subject to the same retaliation from district brass that teachers are subject to from principals, they said.

Zambito, the Pinellas deputy superintendent, said no one at the district level has ever indicated to principals that referrals would be held against them. “That has never been hinted at — ever,” she said.

What could be happening, she said, is that teachers are sending children to the principal’s office for infractions they should be handling themselves. Principals in those instances often send the children back to the teacher.

“That might lead to a teacher saying, 'I’m not getting support,’ ” Zambito said. “But to me, that principal is saying, 'I’ll help you set up your systems and I’ll send someone to give you feedback, but I’m not going to run your classroom.’ ”

Several teachers who answered the poll said they don’t want their principals to hold their hands. They just want to be backed up. When children know there are no consequences, one Hillsborough teacher said, educators lose credibility.

Other teachers said the real problem is that principals are overworked and simply don’t have the time to deal with discipline issues, even serious ones.

“I just think they’re busy,” said Wood, the Lincoln Elementary teacher. “There’s a lot going on in the office, so the response is not always as immediate as you’d like.”

But a delayed reaction can lead to more problems, some say.

“You have to take care of it right then and there,” said Polly Demma, who lives in St. Petersburg but teaches at Robinson High School in South Tampa. “The teacher has the responsibility to take care of it and not ignore it.”

Times staff writers Thomas C. Tobin and Melanie Ave contributed to this report.

[Last modified May 17, 2006, 22:36:24]