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Firing worked for Bucs, Dungy
He has ridden in a parade through downtown Indianapolis. Here in Tampa Bay, we would have preferred for the route to include Dale Mabry Highway.
By GARY SHELTON
Published February 11, 2007
He has ridden in a parade through downtown Indianapolis. Here in Tampa Bay, we would have preferred for the route to include Dale Mabry Highway.
He is going to the White House. Here in Tampa Bay, we are willing to vote for him to move in.
He has gone to Disney World. Here in Tampa Bay, we are goofy for the guy all over again.
Yep, a lot of people have spent the past week feeling very good for Tony Dungy. If the affection grows any more, we will name roads for him, teach his name in schools and put his face on money. Any time he wants to leave Elba and come home, you get the feeling it's all right with Tampa Bay.
But what if he had never left?
Would everyone be quite as happy then?
In sports, nothing makes you look smarter than the scoreboard. And so Dungy looks to have been on the right path all along, and by comparison, the Bucs look lost. Compared to his calm, his old team looks reactionary. Compared to his trophy, the 4-12 season looks like a skin rash.
Ah, but if Dungy had stayed, would the bad years have been better?
And while we're asking, would the good years have been worse?
When you compare the rekindled admiration to the gnashing of teeth that preceded Dungy's departure, these are legitimate questions.
Don't get me wrong. I think it's terrific that Tampa Bay appreciates Dungy, and as you might have noticed, I've spilled a considerable amount of ink in praising him myself. When you consider the Bucs were eliminated shortly after Labor Day, no one should have to apologize for feeling good for a good guy.
But what if?
What if the Glazers had stayed the course after the 2001 season? What if they remained patient despite looking silly in Philly? What if they made a paper airplane out of that Bill Parcells contract and sailed it out the window?
Would the Bucs have won the Super Bowl in 2002? Or since?
That's the money question, isn't it? Even though three of the past four seasons by the Bucs have been lousy, and even though it's hard to see that kind of collapse under Dungy, no one should be willing to throw away a Super Bowl trophy for more seasons in the early rounds of the playoffs. Agreed?
The Kansas City-St. Louis example bears repeating. In the '90s, the Chiefs made the playoffs seven times and the Rams had nine losing seasons. The Rams, however, won a Super Bowl. Edge: Rams. Being great once is better than being very good most of the time.
So what if?
In the feel-good moment of the present, it's easy to miss Dungy. It's easy to suggest that if he were here, the traded draft picks might have turned into players and the front office wars might not have happened and John Lynch would still get his mail here.
If you are to argue that sticking with Dungy was a better choice, you have to believe he would have not only won a Super Bowl, but would have avoided the collapse afterward. Yes, it's possible. No, it's not probable.
Would Dungy have won 12 regular-season games to earn a playoff bye in '02? Remember: Dungy never won that many here largely because his team started 3-4 in each of his last four years.
Would the offense have found its rhythm the way it did in the postseason of '02, when the Bucs averaged more than 35 points? Remember: In six playoff games, Dungy's offensive staff averaged less than 10.
Would the Bucs have been able to win a playoff game in Philadelphia? Remember the way Dungy's last two playoff losses made Veterans Stadium feel like a tomb?
Would Dungy have won the Super Bowl? Perhaps because the Bucs were still a defensive team, but it was Gruden who took the mystery out of the Raiders offense.
When it comes to the Gruden-Dungy debates, I've always been a moderate. In the aftermath of another losing season, a guy could get arrested for suggesting anything positive about the Gruden era, but I've always thought it took both men, fire and ice, for Tampa Bay to win. Both deserve credit. Why is that so hard?
Then there is this: If Dungy had not won the Super Bowl in '02, would he have made it to '03? To '04? The Glazers weren't going to be patient for long. At least not back then.
Whenever Dungy was fired, he would have been snapped up by another team. A year or two later, odds are it wouldn't have been the Colts. Which means no Manning, no Harrison, no Freeney.
Here's the point: Most of the time, things work out for the best. Dungy will tell you that. Tampa Bay has a trophy, and Dungy felt good about it, and Dungy has a trophy, and Tampa Bay feels good about that. Circumstance has made us into distant relatives, closer from afar.
Alas, feeling good is going to have to be good enough for everyone.
Until one side or the other wins its next one, of course.
Gary Shelton can be reached at (727) 893-8805.
[Last modified February 10, 2007, 23:19:54]
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Comments on this article
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by jim
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02/26/07 09:00 PM
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What you are essentially saying is that we could not have won the super bowl with dungy. I think he has just proved you wrong.
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by Lee
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02/26/07 04:01 PM
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"No respect for the team Dungy built." Remember that Dungy inherited players like Lynch and Sapp who were drafted by Sam Wyche.
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by Jim
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02/22/07 12:08 AM
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I agree completely. Both Tampa and Indy have won the SB. Tampa couldn't have won it with Dungy and Indy couldn't have won it without Dungy. Both were great victories by two GREAT coaches!!
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by Chris
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02/19/07 03:08 AM
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And gruden no respect? I seem to remember him giving props to Dungy on the SB stage.
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by Chris
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02/19/07 03:07 AM
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An avg. of less then 10 points in the playoffs: That pretty much sums it up. We would not have won a SB with Dungy, period. Don't get me wrong, I have all the respect in the world for TD, but he fell into the right situation there in Indy.
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by Bob
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02/17/07 08:58 PM
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only good to a point? What point is that? Winning the SB?
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by Mistie
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02/17/07 11:06 AM
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The problem with gruden is he has no respect. No respect for the team dungy built and no respect for the fans. Allen is a worthless g.m. who let some of the best players in the nfl slip thru: lynch, jurevicious, sapp, b. johnson...I could go on & on.
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by Chris
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02/17/07 03:17 AM
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I love all the Bucs/Dungy fans that say Gruden won with Dungy's team. Who did we play against in the Super Bowl. Answer: Grudens team...Oakland..He built our opponent. Bet you don't even remember who coached Oakland that year. Kinda Funny!
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by Roy
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02/14/07 04:12 PM
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RIGHT ON TOM!! Wych drafted the heart of that super bowl team not Tony. Tony drafted shaun king, Joe hamilton, Reidel Anthony, Jacques green please feel free to add to the list of the Tony lovers out, or just tell me what team these players are on.
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by V.J.
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02/13/07 10:46 AM
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Gary has it upside down. The key isn't winning the Super Bowl. It's staying compeittive year in and year out. He overlooks the fact the Rams left LA during those nine losing seasons in the 1990s. The Chiefs are still in K.C.
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by Tony
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02/12/07 11:50 PM
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If Tony would have stayed he probably would have won the Super Bowl. If Gruden coached the Colts this year he probably would have won the Super Bowl. Both are good coaches. The best players usually win. Ask Joe Gibbs or George Seifert.
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by Em Jensen
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02/12/07 06:34 PM
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Gruden won with PART of Tony's team. Gruden gave them the fire they needed and the keys to Oakland's schemes.
Dungy won with PART of Mora's team. Tony gave them the persistence and fortitude they needed. Both men are Good coaches! Go BUCS!
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by George
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02/12/07 05:00 PM
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I just want to say,What Tampa did before we went to the Super Bowl was in the Past tense. Coach Dungy is a great coach with a very strong christian belief. I believe that Both Coach Gruden and Coach Dungy are men with great insite. Let's go forward.
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by Daniel
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02/12/07 03:13 PM
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Tony didn't draft anybody, McKay did. McKay alweays had a problem selecting receivers ; Anthony, Green, Emanuel, Price. He is still messing up in ATL. Give Dungy credit for making the Bucs winners. Give Gruden credit for finishing.
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by Sue
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02/12/07 02:55 PM
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If Tony could have hired Tom Moore as he wanted the offense would not have been a problem. Plus it was mcKay who brought in Macardell and Joe J.
Send the coach packing we would have won had Dungy and McKay been able to do what they needed.
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by William
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02/12/07 11:59 AM
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I'm grateful for what Dungy accomplish here with the Bucs. I think he is a great person, but I felt and still do we have a better coach in Gruden. I like the changes in coaches this year. Now lets get some more solid players and DOMINATE! Go Bucs!!!
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by David
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02/12/07 06:54 AM
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Tampa Bay-come out of the 1930s- its 2000-and you still remain color fixed-with white only signs hanging in your collective minds. Sad, but true.
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by TOM
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02/11/07 09:20 PM
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brooks,lynch,sapp wer drafted by wych not dungy dungy did lousy job in his drafts for the most part wen gruden came in we lost two ones and two two,in draft picks member reidel anthony an jacques green tony took them in rd 1 they wer big bust
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by terry
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02/11/07 06:46 PM
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Gruden took us to the bowl and won. I have to utmost respect for Tony and always will. But nots let forget
" Chucky" had two teams in the superbowl. Yes that was Dungys team but Gruden had just left the Raiders.
You live here, I live here,GO BUCS
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by Edgar
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02/11/07 04:53 PM
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If Dungy would have still coach the Bucs, the Bucs would not past the 1st round. The offense would have been 29th in passing and 14th in running. He never address the offense. Have him go to a franchise that doesn't have Manning on the team.
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by betty
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02/11/07 02:36 PM
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I loved your story bcs it said exactly how I've felt about both coaches. Thought it was time for Dungy to leave and excited when Gruden came in and brought new life into the Bucs players. Will never forget Jurevicious, Ronde, Alstott and B. Johnson
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by Jon
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02/11/07 11:58 AM
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Did I read this right? Shelton actually writing something objective and rational about the Dungy / Gruden debate? I must still be drunk from last night.
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by Ronald
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02/11/07 10:40 AM
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Rod: People like you is the reason why Gruden is still the coach. Give Tony his credit.You guy never want to give people whats due to them. Stop showing your true colors. Also Gruden's team is not lighting up any scoreboards
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by rod
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02/11/07 08:58 AM
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I have watched every buc game for the last eight years. Tony drove me nuts with his offense. If he had stayed here, the offense would be no better! He has Peyton Manning! At this point in Manning's career....I could have coached him to a Super Bowl!
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by Keith
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02/11/07 07:29 AM
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Gary, that was one of the best columns that you've written. It tells it like it truly is. Tony Dungy will forever have a place in Tampa Bays heart. John Gruden won us a Super Bowl. To bad we can't have both as our head coach at the same time. Go Bucs
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by Leo
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02/11/07 06:52 AM
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Thank you, Gary. That was very fair.
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by Art
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02/11/07 06:10 AM
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We all loved Tony but he just seemed unable to get it done. We were all sorry the way he was fired but then too we were hopeful in the future. And it paid off for us. Tony learned by the Bucs firing. Mr nice guy is only good up to a certain point.
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