'You want to go at it?'
A discussion over boat slips turns testy between the mayor and a City Council member.
By TERRI BRYCE REEVES, Times Correspondent
Published September 8, 2007
CLEARWATER - Fingers were pointed and voices raised Thursday night as Mayor Frank Hibbard and council member Paul Gibson clashed over a boat slip project next to Gibson's condominium building.
But the men did not, as some of their colleagues feared, throw any punches.
"You want to go at it over this?" Gibson asked the mayor at one point. "Go ahead."
The fiery exchange came after Gibson, who lives in the Belle Harbor condominiums, said the council needed to spend more time considering details for security and other issues for the boat slips, which will be built next to Belle Harbor.
Gibson had earlier said that 27 privately leased slips at the marina would not pose a problem, but the 15 proposed public slips could become a nuisance that could ruin the lives of Belle Harbor residents, some of whom live in condos costing $2-million and up.
Gibson said the council shouldn't vote until those issues have been aired and worked out in detail.
"We can talk about all of that, but we can also do it in an orderly way," Hibbard said. "One of the things that bothers me about what you're saying is that it's the classic Florida disease, which is, 'I've got mine, I don't want you to have yours,' and to me it sounds somewhat elitist that you're going to be fine with the people who own these slips or are leasing these slips ..."
"It's got nothing to do with that," Gibson broke in.
"Excuse me, sir," Hibbard said, raising an index finger at Gibson, who sits next to the mayor on the dais. "I am speaking and you will wait your turn."
A moment later, Gibson said, "You want to go at it over this? Go ahead."
"Or what?" Hibbard said.
"Or we'll have a dialogue loudly as you seem to want to have," Gibson said. "Go ahead and make your point."
"I don't like when people interrupt me, as well as the rest of the council," Hibbard said.
"I will give you whatever time you want," Gibson said. "I'm not going to interrupt you."
"You don't have to give me time," Hibbard said. "I run the meetings. Do you understand that?"
"I understand that," Gibson said. "I also understand I was elected."
At that point, Council member George Cretekos abruptly moved to approve the boat slips project. Within seconds, the item passed 4-1, with Gibson voting no.
* * *
At the end of the meeting, Gibson looked at Cretekos and told him he was disappointed.
"My motion was not out of order," Cretekos responded. "It was in order, and I did it in part because I was concerned that there was going to be a fight that was going to break out."
Council member Carlen Petersen said she was glad Cretekos stepped in.
"It was escalating into something unprofessional and uncalled for," she said.
Also at the end of the meeting, Petersen said she was offended by remarks made by Gibson that suggested he knew how "that side" was going to vote.
"I really ask you to please be polite and respectful and not ...," she said.
"Cutting me off and telling me I can no longer speak is not respectful," Gibson retorted.
Hibbard called the evening's proceedings "unfortunate," telling Gibson he didn't believe he suppressed his right to speak, but saying rather that he wanted to let the rest of the panel ask questions.
"I've never quelled discussion and will never quell discussion and I think it was misinterpreted," Hibbard said.
* * *
On Friday, Gibson said the suggestion that he and the mayor nearly got into a physical scrap was "ludicrous."
"It never crossed my mind," Gibson said. "What I meant is just what I said. The mayor likes to shout people down."
When asked if he felt physically threatened, Hibbard said, "No, but I felt that was a poor choice of words."
"I'm not happy with what happened last night," Hibbard said Friday. "I'm ashamed it happened. I've been on the council for six years and have always prided myself that Clearwater is different than other municipalities and we've always had an open, civil exchange."
Cretekos said he had a problem getting to sleep after Thursday night's meeting.
"It has troubled me deeply," he said. "I'm just trying to find a way to end it so we can move on."
The exchange stunned one close observer of the council.
"I lost my faith and trust in good behavior at a public meeting," said Lois Cormier, 76, a self-described "elderly watchdog" who regularly watches council meetings on television. She said she stayed up late to view the four-hour session, hoping Gibson and Hibbard would apologize and make amends.
It didn't happen.
Ed Armstrong, the Clearwater attorney who represents JMC Communities, the developer planning to build the 42-slip marina in conjunction with the Sandpearl Resort, called Gibson a "passionate advocate with a high IQ."
"Gibson is a really intelligent guy, new to the council, and this is just part of the learning process," he said. "I've seen this type of thing happen from time to time in other communities and I predict everything will be back to normal at the next meeting."
In the meantime, word of the exchange spread rapidly. By the end of business Friday, the Web video of the meeting had more than 5,000 hits. By comparison, the video of the council's last meeting had just 850 hits by the next day.
Terri Bryce Reeves can be reached at treeves@tampabay.rr.com.At a glance
What was the Clearwater council voting on?
The developer of the Sandpearl Resort proposes to build 42 boat slips - 15 reserved as public slips for the city - in a basin next to the Belle Harbor luxury condominiums. That's fewer slips than the developer originally proposed, but Belle Harbor residents have complained that the public slips will stay open late, with no on-site security. The City Council approved the smaller number of slips Thursday and asked the Belle Harbor condominium association to put its recommendations for hours and security in writing for consideration at a later date.
On the Web
To see an excerpt of Thursday's city council meeting go to pinellas.tampabay.com
To watch the entire meeting, go to www.myclearwater.com, click on Government Services, then on City Council Meeting Streaming Video, then on the meeting for Sept. 6. You can go directly to the discussion on boat slips by using the pull-down "Jump to..." menu to call up agenda item 7.5, on the proposed amendment to the adopted development agreement.