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Florida may yet decide race
With no Democratic leader emerging, votes could matter.
By ADAM C. SMITH, Times Political Editor
Published February 7, 2008
It's a dead heat presidential election.
Florida Democrats are howling about disenfranchised voters.
One candidate demands that every vote be counted in Florida. No way, says the other, decrying efforts to steal an election.
Bush vs. Gore in Florida in 2000? Wrong. Try Clinton vs. Obama at the 2008 Democratic National Conventional in Denver.
Sure, it's unlikely, but it's also absolutely plausible after a nationwide Super Tuesday primary left Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama poised for a long, delegate-by-delegate slog.
As each primary election passes without a clear winner emerging, Democrats are growing ever more anxious that Florida could end up at the center of a bitter and divisive convention fight over whether Clinton or Obama gets the nomination.
Call it Flori-duh 2008, the Democratic sequel, and put the lawyers on standby.
"If this goes to the convention, and if these guys are within a 100 votes of each other, I don't know what the hell is going to happen," said Allan Katz, a Tallahassee Obama supporter and member of the Democratic National Committee. "It's just going to be a mess."
The problem in a nutshell: Florida and Michigan moved their primaries into January to have more influence on the nominations. As punishment for breaking its calendar rules, the Democratic National Committee stripped all of Florida's 210 delegates and all of Michigan's 156.
Both states opted to hold their elections anyway, then the candidates agreed to boycott the states and do no campaigning. Clinton handily won both, though she was the only serious candidate on the Michigan ballot.
Linchpin status?
It takes 2,025 delegates to win the nomination. The Associated Press calculates Obama and Clinton are less than 100 delegates apart as of Wednesday - 1,045 for the New York senator and 960 for the Illinois senator.
So, if the neck-and-neck delegate race continues, how Florida's and Michigan's delegations are treated could decide the nomination.
Among the scenarios envisioned by the number crunchers in the Obama campaign is a deadlock after the last primary on June 7, with 1,806 delegates for Obama and 1,789 for Clinton.
"I said a long time ago that unfortunately you had individuals sitting in back rooms at computer screens and looking at numbers, and a lot of people made the decision that Florida delegates were not going to be relevant," said Janee Murphy, a DNC member from Tampa. "I've said repeatedly, 'Watch, Florida is going to be the linchpin.'"
It's only a linchpin if its delegates count, however. Clinton, of course, has vowed to seat delegations to both states, but Obama is opposed. He argues that it's not fair to count the result of elections that everyone agreed would be meaningless beforehand.
DNC chairman Howard Dean says the decision will be up to a 186-member party credentials committee for the convention, but that panel hasn't even been formed yet.
"It hasn't sunk into their thick heads, the chairman and the DNC, the train wreck that's about to come if we don't get those delegations seated," said Democratic Florida Sen. Bill Nelson, a Clinton supporter.
Races aren't over yet
Time for a deep breath. Several more primary elections are coming up that could solve this problem. Obama or Clinton could seal the nomination as early as March 4, by which time a dozen states including Virginia, Texas and Ohio will have voted, or at least by April 22, when Pennsylvania votes.
Once a nominee emerges and the contest is over, most everyone agrees, he or she is likely to seat the Florida and Michigan delegations. The credential committee would likely make such a recommendation in July, and the full convention in Denver would be expected to ratify.
But if there is no clear nominee? DNC chairman Dean acknowledged on CNN Tuesday that possibility and said it would be bad news for the party.
"You don't want to have a divided convention," Dean said. "There have been two divided - three divided conventions in my political lifetime - in '68, '72 and '80. And they resulted in losses each time."
State Democrats' role
There is no sign that state and national Democrats are trying to iron out the problem, however. State Democratic chairwoman Karen Thurman said there is no alternative plan in the works should Democrats fail to get a nominee before summertime.
"If the Florida Dems wait until the credential committee is seated, all hell could break loose. They should try to come up with a compromise now," Democratic strategist and DNC member Donna Brazile said in an e-mail earlier this week.
Some Florida Democratic party activists have begun talking about holding statewide caucuses, essentially another election day, to elect delegates to the convention in compliance with the DNC. But Thurman and Nelson dismiss that idea, saying it could cost millions of dollars. Besides, they note, more than 1.7-million Florida Democrats already expressed their presidential preference on Jan. 29.
"The fact of them not campaigning was the choice of the candidates," said Thurman. "Florida Democratic voters, Florida Democratic activists, Florida Democrats who had chosen sides, went out and did the campaigning for their candidates. It was everywhere."
Nelson, meanwhile, predicts Florida and Michigan delegates will be seated no matter what. But why would Obama supporters recognize those delegations if they stood to hand the nomination to his rival?
Nelson's answer: How can you not?
"Are you going to strong-arm Florida and Michigan in order to get the nomination," Nelson said, "knowing you'd have very little chance of winning those states on Nov. 4?"
Adam C. Smith can be reached at asmith@sptimes.com or 727 893-8241.
[Last modified February 6, 2008, 23:55:46]
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Comments on this article
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by Chris
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02/10/08 10:18 PM
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Hillary was the only candidate on the ballot in Michigan and Uncommitted came in a pretty strong 2nd. How can you count that election? She was the only one on the ballot. Changing the rules after the game, how politics as usual?
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by Pat
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02/08/08 10:02 PM
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Is Nelson an idiot?? If Obama does not fight letting Florida and Michigan in, knowing they are pretty much committed to Clinton, then he wouldn't have to worry about Nov. 4th. He will have already lost. Get real, Florida. You screwed up!!!!!!
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by Rick
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02/08/08 09:50 PM
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The DNC must enforce the rules. Where should the DNC have drawn the line? What if MD wanted to vote last Thanksgiving? Then NM decides to vote the week before...Where would it have ended? The rule served a critical purpose. Enforce it.
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by Clay
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02/08/08 07:42 PM
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It's absurd to think that Florida and Michigan can be counted, as the game wasn't even played. If you delude yourself into thinking otherwise, it's either arrogance or lack of intelligence. Your call ...
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by Russ
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02/08/08 07:16 PM
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The only real solution would be to have a special primary election in both states before the convention. If the DNC agrred not to count the original election, it is as if it didn't happen. Therefore it would be the only fair way to solve the problem!
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by David
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02/08/08 06:45 PM
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What a uninformed remark Pete makes, claiming he 'wasn't allowed to vote' simply because he's not Dem or Rep. So? He's allowed to vote in the party, if any, he belongs to; if doesn't like their system he should find a party he likes;& stop whining
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by Vicky
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02/08/08 04:56 PM
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I'm a citizen and I got up and went out on a cold day and voted. Tell me again why any party gets to take my vote away?
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by Eric
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02/08/08 03:29 PM
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If Floridians and Michiganders want their votes to count, they should reschedule primaries for some time in the next 2 months, and let the candidates campaign. This would solve the dispute and satisfy the DNC. Everyone wins.
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by Chuck
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02/08/08 02:08 PM
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This would be so typical Clinton. Isn't this changing the rules in the middle of the game? Talk about unfair! The only way this could work is a 'do over' that includes only those that did not vote last time.
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by uncounted
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02/08/08 11:07 AM
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Clinton did not campaign in FL. Obama ran television ads here! That counts as campaigning in my book. I voted for Edwards. Seat the delegates.
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by Steve
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02/08/08 10:55 AM
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Seating the Florida and Michigan delegations will be the most loathsome political chicanery I have seen in a dozen presidential campaigns. If that happens I will never vote for a Democrat again.
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by Linda
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02/08/08 10:45 AM
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Every Dem should send a letter, an e-mail or place a call to the DNC and demand that our votes count. Go to DNC.org. This isn't about our legislature or our state party. It is about the 1.7 million who went out to vote!
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by John
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02/08/08 07:25 AM
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If the Democratic party decides to change the rules of the game after the game is over, to hand the nomination to Clinton, Obama should should take his army of supporters (and donors), walk out and run as a third party candidate.
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by Jack
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02/08/08 07:15 AM
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I agree I have written the DNC and demanded they seat the FL/MI delegates, how drase they tell voters thoer voice cannot be heard. These states did nothing illegal they moved there pooling date, I urge all voters to write to DNC and support Clinton
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by Bruce
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02/08/08 05:53 AM
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Count???? They never even campained here?
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by Marion
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02/08/08 04:50 AM
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A deal's a deal. We were told our vote wouldn't count, and now Senator Clinton wants to change to game. Everyone should have dealt with this issue before our rogue primary, or we should have a new primary/caucus. PPV is a bad idea-don't pay to vot
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by John
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02/08/08 04:00 AM
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I'm from California and have no desire to have Florida's voice unheard. But, if the DNC tries to seat delegates from the first election, instant lawsuit by people who didn't vote because they knew it didn't count. Enfranchise everyone -- caucus!
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by Bryan
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02/08/08 03:14 AM
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If they are going to count the delegates, then we need a REVOTE. Plain and simple. Many people stayed home because they didn't think they would be counted. This is neccisary ESPECIALLY in Michigan, since Obama wasn't even on the ballot there!
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by Bill
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02/08/08 02:58 AM
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Either count our votes now or don't come calling in NOV. Neither canidate campaigned so the field was level. The canidate should take results of their actions. Not the good voters in these two states who exercised their right to vote and be heard
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by Mike in the Mountain West
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02/08/08 02:23 AM
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As an Obama supporter I can handle the superdelegates giving it to Clinton 'cause its allowed by the rules but if the game is changed midstream and Florida and Michigan give it to her I will register my disapproval by not voting.
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by Richard Martin
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02/08/08 01:57 AM
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Sorry, in party politics, you have no right to vote for the candidate if the party decides that you don't. You aren't disenfranchised because "candidate for president" isn't a public office. It's entirely FL's fault for moving the election forward.
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by Richard
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02/08/08 01:56 AM
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Democrats for McCain! The DNC dosen't want our delegates just our money.
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by DisgustedDem
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02/08/08 01:37 AM
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The childishness of "taking away delegates to punish" is ridiculous.US Constitution guarantees our voting rights, DNC has no call to abridge that.Its no wonder the neocons took over the world-the DNC handed it to them, and appears to want to again.
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by Ross
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02/08/08 01:35 AM
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Clinton did not campaign in flordia. stop spreading hate and lies.
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by Bonnie
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02/08/08 12:25 AM
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Only answer:Clinton-Obama.Howard Dean has the opportunity to be the statesman and buck up to Brazile and threats of riots.Obama transcends race?Needs to stop playing the race card.Dean - save the Party, country, world. What would Lincoln do?Get Guts.
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by Nancy
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02/08/08 12:21 AM
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We need another election if the florida votes are going to count! Many people did not vote because they knew the votes did not count.
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by Minerva
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02/08/08 12:16 AM
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Constitution gives voting rights,not political parties. Constitution gives state legislatures right to decide how electors are picked. DNC is in violation of Constitution. I can't vote for any of Dean's puppets; we are either a nation of laws or not.
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by Bob
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02/07/08 11:58 PM
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Everybody knows, if Florida had the primary on 02/05 it would go to Clinton just like CA and NJ. The margine would be narrower, but she would still get much more delegates.
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by Jeff
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02/07/08 11:28 PM
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What is not being remembered is that Hillary, desperate to win at all costs, violated her pledge to not campaign in Florida - and DID, herself, the last two days. And anyone should want to reward such behavior?
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by Jane
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02/07/08 11:17 PM
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ABSOLUTELY the FL votes should count and you better believe if Obama had more delegates than Clinton he would be say the same thing only LOUDER!
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by ConsDemo
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02/07/08 10:58 PM
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"All I can say is my vote better count, That is my right, not the dnc. "
It is their party, they can set their own rules, individual states can't dictate rules that would apply to a national party.
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by TrueHawk
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02/07/08 10:54 PM
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Floridians love McCain and after the coming Clinton battle, many Obama supporters will sit out the election and McCain can win.
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by James Rohret
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02/07/08 10:38 PM
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The Hillary supporters like Nelson (and apparently Thurman) want the 'household name' candidate to keep the majority of delegates awarded (in limbo of course) during the Mich.& Fl. Primaries. Re-start those 2 Primaries. A few $M shouldn't stop Democ.
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by David
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02/07/08 10:12 PM
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HILLARY WON BOTH OF THOSE STATES. PEOPLE WENT OUT AND VOTED. THE DELEGATES SHOULD BE ALLOCATED ACCORDING TO THE DISTRICTS.
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by Tim
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02/07/08 09:51 PM
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obama ppl says FL and MI shouldn't count because he lost. I'm pretty sure those losers would be singing a different tune if he had won. do i hear double-standards? Besides, u're trying to throw away 1.7mil votes and ask like 50000 ppl in a caucus??
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