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Eyes on intersections
Red-light cameras are coming, and a state legislator wants to allow more.
By Mike Brassfield, Times Staff Writer
Published March 3, 2008
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A camera operated by American Traffic Solutions in Arnold, Mo., captures a car narrowly missing a bus after driving through a red light. To see the video, go to state.tampabay.com. The company will soon install cameras in Port Richey.
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[Special to the Times]
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Driving around Clearwater last week, Peter Paulding was stunned by how many cars were running red lights.
"You've got this phenomenon called 'platooning' where cars keep going through the red light to keep opposing traffic from coming through," he said. "It's very common there."
Then he returned to his job as police chief of the Pensacola suburb of Gulf Breeze, one of two Florida cities ticketing drivers based on evidence from red-light cameras. His recommendation for west-central Florida: "You could use them."
We're about to get them.
The cameras are coming to the area beginning this month, and they'll almost certainly become more widespread if Florida legislators smooth the way by changing a state law this spring. This is plunging the state into a long-running nationwide debate: Are these devices just a bunch of cities' moneymaking schemes, a Big Brother-ish invasion of privacy? Or are they a way to restore sanity to intersections by fighting what officials call an "epidemic" of red-light running?
Some local cities like St. Petersburg are interested in posting the cameras at dangerous intersections, but they're waiting for legislators to clear up the law. Thanks to a loophole in that law, places like Clearwater, Hillsborough County, Temple Terrace and Port Richey are already bringing in the cameras or are strongly considering it.
"I wish they were already up," said police Lt. David Brown of Port Richey, which will install its first one in a couple of weeks along crash-prone U.S. 19. "People say it's a cash cow, but all we're trying to do is save lives. If you don't run the red light, you won't hear from us."
More than 300 cities in two dozen states use cameras to ticket drivers who blow through stoplights. Nearly a dozen companies that provide and operate the cameras get a cut of the ticket revenue. This arrangement gets a lot of criticism. But cities insist that partnerships with private firms are the only realistic way to get the cameras in the first place, and at no cost to taxpayers.
No insurance penalty
In Florida cities like Gulf Breeze and the Orlando suburb of Apopka, it works like this: Cameras on poles videotape and photograph the offending cars and their license plates, but not the drivers. Only three states allow face photos.
After a local police officer reviews the evidence on the camera vendor's secure Web site, the company sends the photos and a $125 ticket to the car owner. Drivers who don't believe they broke the law can go online and watch a 12-second video of the violation.
The tickets aren't considered moving violations and don't involve insurance points. Instead they're civil citations, more like parking tickets.
Officials who want the cameras say too many Floridians aren't taking stoplights seriously. They also point to polls showing strong support for the cameras.
State figures show that red-light running kills about 100 people and injures more than 6,000 in Florida each year. Hillsborough County, which will hold a public hearing Thursday on its plans to install the cameras, had nearly 450 red-light crashes last year, while its sheriff's deputies wrote nearly 3,800 tickets for red-light running.
Still, drivers like Tampa cabbie Charles Smalling have concerns about the cameras. He gave Hillsborough County commissioners a hypothetical situation: "I'm going to a light, and it starts to turn red. I put on the brakes, and a car behind me is coming. I can't go through that light - I'm going to get a ticket. But if I don't go through the light, I'll get hit from the rear."
The camera companies say their employees and traffic cops view the videos to weed out drivers who don't deserve tickets. Also, like any citation, these can be contested in traffic court.
Drivers who enter an intersection on a yellow light, are in a funeral procession or get stuck in a left-turn lane waiting for oncoming traffic to clear out don't get tickets, said Josh Weiss of American Traffic Solutions, which has camera deals with Apopka and Port Richey and is talking to Temple Terrace.
"It's about money, control and power over the average motorist," argues Henry Stowe of Sanford, an activist with the grass roots National Motorists Association. He notes that some researchers have seen a rise in rear-end collisions after the cameras go up, as drivers slam on the brakes at yellow or red lights. That's one reason why Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio rejected the idea.
Richard Redding, a traffic engineer for the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, reviewed a decade's worth of studies and found that they differ on the question of rear-end crashes. But they show about a 25 percent drop in deadlier T-bone collisions and "right-angle crashes," the kind that occur when someone who's making a left turn gets hit by an oncoming driver who doesn't stop on red. "At worst, the cameras are increasing fender benders and preventing the kinds of crashes that kill people and destroy lives," he said.
Banned on state roads
Florida bans the cameras from its rights-of-way on state roads, but some cities are getting around that by sticking them on private property near troublesome intersections. The law has stopped St. Petersburg from seeking the cameras because many of its major thoroughfares are state roads, said city traffic director Joe Kubicki.
Powerful lawmakers have opposed the cameras for years, calling them profit-driven government intrusions. But Rep. Ron Reagan, R-Bradenton, is sponsoring a bill that would allow the cameras on state land, and he thinks it will prevail this time. Cities like Orlando, Jacksonville and Sarasota are watching.
"There's no expectation of privacy when you're in a vehicle on a public highway," he said. "We take pictures of toll booth violators, don't we?"
Mike Brassfield can be reached at brassfield@sptimes.com or (813) 226-3435.
In Hillsborough
Hillsborough County will hold a public hearing on red-light cameras at 2 p.m. Thursday at the County Center in downtown Tampa.
Possible locations
Here are 10 intersections where its Sheriff's Office wants to use them to catch red-light runners:
-N Dale Mabry Highway and N Lakeview Drive
-N Dale Mabry Highway and W Waters Avenue
-E Lumsden Road and Bryan Road
-E Hillsborough Avenue and Harney Road
-W Linebaugh Avenue and Henderson Road
-Providence Road and Town Center Boulevard
-U.S. 41 South and Gibsonton Drive
-W Brandon Boulevard and N Kings Avenue
-E Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard and S Kingsway Road
-E Fletcher Avenue and Interstate 275
[Last modified March 2, 2008, 21:51:19]
Share your thoughts on this story
Comments on this article
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by 727guy
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03/05/08 11:14 AM
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@Bob 03/04/08 01:18 AM - If your statement was true, we wouldn't be considering red light cameras in the first place.
@johnm59 - apparently someone does care *you* - because you bothered to comment. Whos the "FOOL" now?
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by road kill
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03/04/08 07:42 PM
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keep running those lights,I'm not the only one out there,that has no problems with taking out you and your family,I don't run lights,you people need to think about that when your transporting your kids,because I don't care,run a light,lose your life
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by road kill
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03/04/08 07:36 PM
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sitting at waters going west to left on the veterans,(today),my light turned green,I punched the gas,the fourth person running the light almost made me a wealthy man,thats right I will crush anyone who runs a light in front of me,no remorse,die,ha-ha
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by bill
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03/04/08 06:11 PM
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gizmo: It's a code violation, if you don't live in the city, there is nothing they can do if you don't pay it.
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by gizmo
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03/04/08 01:56 PM
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what if you dont paid the ticket?
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by Dawn
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03/04/08 05:50 AM
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put one at Ulmerton and US19!
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by Bob
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03/04/08 01:18 AM
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@727: Heavier vehicles require greater distances to stop, certainly. But that's irrelevant. A responsible driver knows her vehicle's capabilities and drives within them, whether the vehicle weighs 1 ton or 20 tons.
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by John
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03/04/08 12:46 AM
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Great idea..should have done this a while ago. My wife was hit by someone that ran a read light....its getting very bad out there.
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by johnm59
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03/03/08 10:36 PM
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@Tom,(1)don't loan out your vehicle(2)get a picture from the front and back,(3)there will be a date and time on it,(4)remember who you loan your car two//727 get a life,no one cares what you think,"FOOL"
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by Wayne
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03/03/08 10:19 PM
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check this out:
http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/
a simple change in the yellow duration from 3 to 4 seconds does much more good than any camera system. This is a cash cow, that just became popular since the tax cuts!
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by Mike
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03/03/08 09:19 PM
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The City of Albuquerque, NM (USA) has suspended the red light cameras because the camera owners were taking too big a cut of the revenues (the last time I heard). The cameras do cut down on serious accidents at intersections.
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by andy
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03/03/08 07:52 PM
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yeesssssss
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by Tom
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03/03/08 07:38 PM
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For those of you who believe the person driving should be ticketed--If you "loan" your vehicle to someone, you are responsible for everything they do in that vehicle.
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by Tom
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03/03/08 07:35 PM
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The "issue" is not money related! It's a measure of people doing the right thing and "policing" themselves. That has been shown to untrue. It's every man for himself on Pinellas' roads, and it has to stop. If this will stop a few people do it!!!
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by Mel
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03/03/08 07:16 PM
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I can't even get ONE comment posted so how does this 727 guy get like 100 of his posted? Wht's your secret 727? Work for the Times?
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by 727guy
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03/03/08 07:04 PM
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@jack - your experience quote is a good one, you could also apply it to lessons learned from allowing private industry to perform services that local government is supposed to.
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by Sid
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03/03/08 06:59 PM
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There is a lot of controversy in Balcones Heights, TX, which is a suburb of San Antonio. You all might want to do a story on how this small city (and the state of Texas) are handling red light cameras.
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by Ed
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03/03/08 06:42 PM
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No one has mentioned the biggest problem - the extreme wait times between green lights. It ENCOURAGES one to speed thru the yellow. NO OTHER PLACE I've ever lived has such long reds - less running the lights too. CYCLE FASTER a better answer.
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by Bill
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03/03/08 06:28 PM
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And don't forget, when the incentive to install such a system is money, and if you watched the Port Richey city council meetings, you know it is, the city will find ways to increase it's revenue, i.e., shorten the yellow, you have more red lights run
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by Jack
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03/03/08 05:20 PM
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For those who fear being read ended, just get a large bumper sticker that says I BRAKE FOR YELLOW.
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by Jack
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03/03/08 05:17 PM
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Bring on the cameras. Too many drivers don't know the rules of the road, and a lot of them don't care. Lay on the fines, and make them big. Experience runs an expensive school, but fools will learn in no other.
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by amy
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03/03/08 05:07 PM
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cameras should ticket those who while driving: read the paper, check their laptop, put on makeup, do their nails, eat breakfast/lunch/dinner, talk to their friends, sing, search for lost pets, THESE are all distractions. Ticket everyone.
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by jr
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03/03/08 04:19 PM
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debbie it might also be a good idea to put cameras in bathrooms and finally teach those jerks who keep leaving the toilet seat up.
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by jr
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03/03/08 04:11 PM
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Honestly, recently we were threatenned by several cities to close down police departments because of the percieved budget cuts- They obviousely care! Just another multi million dollar blunder at our expense. I guess we can just raise taxes to cover.
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by johnm59
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03/03/08 04:07 PM
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another example of how far Florida is behind the times,the Wash.D.C.,Md.&Va.area have had this for at least 10yrs.GREAT IDEA,too many people run lights here,including the POLICE//But they should also come with points and facial pictures,no lope holes
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by JR
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03/03/08 04:01 PM
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How much is this going to cost? Will it really make a difference. Who's family member owns the contract?
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by Terri
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03/03/08 03:50 PM
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727guy..I guess the red light runner can't be in 2 places at once. That is a no brainer. It is easy: picture of your tag through red light.photo with ticket in mail...pay it.Again.Don't run red lights.
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by 727guy
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03/03/08 03:34 PM
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@Terri - if the system was infallible you might have a point, but these systems incorrectly ticket everywhere they're installed, sometimes the same car in 2 locations simultaneously. Then you have to defend yourself for a crime you didn't commit.
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by 727guy
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03/03/08 03:19 PM
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@Edward - thats a gross oversimplification. It would be true if all vehicles braked at the same rate, but a car thats 1000lbs lighter than yours that has better brakes can stop faster than you can - and you're likely to hit it if you're at speed.
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by Edward
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03/03/08 03:07 PM
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If the driver in front of you panic stops and you hit him/her, you are following too close and/or not paying attention. Sharon is right. And put a camera at Linebaugh and Sheldon (traffic on Sheldon), that one's a SOB.
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by Terri
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03/03/08 02:50 PM
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Amalia...how many unknown drivers do you have using your vehicle??? Unless you have a police report for a stolen vehicle then I guess you will pay the fine. It is simple. Don't run red lights.
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by 727guy
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03/03/08 02:40 PM
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@Sue - you won't be affected until you slam into some other drivers rear-end because they panic-stopped at an intersection known to have a red-light camera. Then its an accident thats automatically your fault.
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by 727guy
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03/03/08 02:28 PM
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@David - so the solution is to let a private company make money on peoples bad driving habits? Prior installations show that the systems are inaccurate and laws ending up getting changed to increase infractions. Thats a solution?
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by Clark
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03/03/08 02:23 PM
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Lost in all of this is the fact that if individuals could conduct themselves responsibly and take personal accountability for their actions, discussions like this wouldn't even be necessary.
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by 727guy
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03/03/08 02:13 PM
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Increasing yellow lights by a second or less has about the same positive effect in accident reduction, costs nothing, and introduces no questions of civil liberty violations. Why not just do that? Because no ones pockets get padded, thats why.
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