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Bills curb double-dipping
Lawmakers' proposals would end the collection of both retirement and salary checks.
By Lucy Morgan, Times Senior Correspondent
Published March 4, 2008
TALLAHASSEE - Stung by angry cries from citizens, state lawmakers are drafting bills that could put an end to future double-dipping by some members of the state retirement system.
But they say they can't stop everyone already getting a pension and a salary.
The bills would close a loophole created in 2001 that has allowed growing numbers of elected officials and state employees to collect retirement benefits and a state salary at the same time.
The state spends more than $300-million on salaries for double-dipping employees who have returned to the state payroll after "retiring." The list includes more than 200 elected officials, 200 senior management employees and 7,700 regular employees.
Sen. Mike Fasano, R-New Port Richey, said Senate President Ken Pruitt called him the day the St. Petersburg Times published a story about the double-dipping and directed him to do whatever needs to be done to fix the problem.
Fasano said staff attorneys don't believe they can legally take pensions or jobs away from those already double-dipping, but they can stop it in the future. And they can force elected officials and judges to choose between retirement benefits and salaries as their terms expire.
"We have heard from constituents everywhere," Fasano said. "They are saying. 'Please change this law, this is unacceptable."'
Many of those who complained were senior citizens with fixed incomes far below the big salaries and retirement benefits some state officials have received, Fasano said.
The Times also heard from hundreds of outraged Floridians. Many complaints came from former state employees who say they were denied the right to stick around while "a select chosen few were extended the courtesy of favoritism."
"Taxpayers should be mad as hell about this happening," said John Cooper, chief of emergency services for the Seminole Tribe of Florida. "What a disgraceful double standard."
Several readers compared the largesse for some public officials with the current effort to cut state and local budgets in the wake of falling tax revenues and increased property tax exemptions.
A few people defended the system, saying retirees should have the right to return to work at government agencies after earning benefits.
Identities are hidden
Rep. Robert Schenck, R-Spring Hill, filed the House bill. "I think the whole process is wrong," he said. "I don't think we should be conducting business this way; this is taxpayer money.
"It's an important bill. I don't see why anyone would oppose it."
Besides limiting double-dipping, Fasano said he wants to change a section of the law that protects the identities of retirees.
The Times argued that the double-dippers are not retired, and Gov. Charlie Crist ordered state retirement officials to release the lists last month, saying the law was never intended to block the release of information about how taxpayer money is spent.
But some governmental agencies are still protecting the identity and compensation of their double-dippers.
Many of those taking advantage of the law are in the state's Deferred Retirement Option Program, called DROP, created in 1998 as a way to encourage senior employees nearing retirement to make way for younger, lower-paid employees.
Those entering DROP were expected to retire within five years; the state deposits retirement benefits the employee would have received for those five years and pays them 6.5 percent interest on the benefits. When they retire, many of them get hundreds of thousands of dollars in deferred benefits, in addition to pensions and salaries.
The DROP benefit stops after five years for most employees, but lawmakers have allowed teachers and a few other employees where shortages exist to remain an extra 36 months.
Some double-dippers argue that they are not costing the state any money because someone would be hired to fill their positions if they didn't return to the payroll. But lawmakers who created the DROP program say the system was designed to promote younger, lower-paid employees.
State pays all
The state fully funds pensions with contributions of about $2.5-billion a year. No money is contributed by employees. In addition to state employees, the retirement system covers 900 other government agencies, including many cities, counties and school boards.
Double-dipping has steadily increased since legislators quietly amended retirement laws on the last day of session in 2001 to allow some lawmakers to collect state retirement checks in addition to their legislative salaries.
Former Rep. Gaston Cantens, a Republican from Miami, offered the amendment to help a fellow legislator who had worked for a school district with "a retirement problem."
Cantens, now vice president of corporate relations for Florida Crystals, a sugar company, said Monday that he never intended for officials to continue drawing their regular salary plus a retirement benefit but was trying to let people who were in the DROP program continue working.
"It certainly wasn't the intent to allow full-time elected officials to be able to stay on in the same position and collect retirement benefits."
Lucy Morgan can be reached at lmorgan@sptimes.com or 850 224-7263.
[Last modified March 3, 2008, 21:39:14]
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Comments on this article
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by tim
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03/11/08 01:03 PM
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I work with a person who did their 5 years in drop, took the 'required' one month 'retirement', the came back to work at the same job, so another employee couldn't get her position. Now she brags every day till she gets her 2 paychecks. It's a shame.
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by Mr. Haney
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03/09/08 04:05 PM
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The truth is that the DROP programs SAVES tax dollars by creating smaller pensions.DROP employees take a smaller pension in exchange for the lump payment that takes up to 5 years to accrue. Then they MUST retire, freeing up the job for new employees.
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by Lew
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03/09/08 01:09 PM
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To tell someone that they can not run for public office simply because they used to work for the government and retired, unless they give up their retirement, is absurd, and unconstitutional. It will result in much litigation. No savings of taxes.
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by Chris
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03/08/08 12:16 AM
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So you folks that made the mistake of working in the private sector are upset to find out that a state job would have been better... why take your wasted lives out on people that made smarter choices than you? Get over yourselves!
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by Mel
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03/07/08 07:21 PM
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Do any of you whiners even know how the drop works? You DROP and your (reduced)pension goes into a fund that you get when you actually leave five years later. It is NOTdouble pay. Unless you want 80 year old cops and firemen, I would leave it alone.
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by Dave
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03/05/08 12:12 PM
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It's interesting to note that the person waging war on teachers, Mike Fasano, is a high school dropout and refuses to even talk with teachers who are part of his constituency.
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by Dave
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03/05/08 12:11 PM
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A teacher works and the school board pays their retirement into the retirement system. A teacher goes into DROP, their salary freezes, and the retirement money goes into an account. Where is this double dipping going on?
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by Mike
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03/05/08 10:27 AM
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There is a major teacher shortage in Florida that is going to get worse in the coming years. If teachers are not allowed to DROP, where does the State think they will get the replacements? It is the retirees money that the State is earning int on.
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by Kenny
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03/05/08 08:13 AM
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I retired from the Federal Gov't. If I had returned to work, my pay would have been reduced by the amount of my retirement! No increase there!! Talk about a Golden Goose!! I should have worked for the state!!
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by Not yet retired
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03/04/08 11:31 PM
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So what if someone keeps working after they retire? Are you gonna say where someone is able to work after they retire? Next the uninformed voters will demand state workers cannot work anywhere while drawing a retirement pension!
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by tom
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03/04/08 08:12 PM
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the DROP has never cost the taxpayer a penny. you still are working at your regular pay the ret. pay goes in an account then when you leave you start the pension. it is the big shots those that retire after drop then are allowed to return thats abuse
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by paulo
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03/04/08 07:08 PM
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Most people here are jealous haters, Most do not even understand this, esp the Times reporter.Look at the list of retirees on here,most have measley pensions.
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by nodbldip
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03/04/08 04:56 PM
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I agree with Mo.All State employees,teachers,etc.need to be SAVING for their retirement,just like the rest of us.Where is MY pension?I have been a good parent,provider,and worker in the "private sector".Am I any less deserving of funds?NO.But I save.
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by Pogo
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03/04/08 04:48 PM
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When I tried to lay out 30 days and come back, I was told it couldn't be done. Problem was, I was a grunt and didn't have any pull.I took over 30 years of experience and "institutional memory" out the door with me.
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by Brenda
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03/04/08 04:41 PM
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Please look at the universities and those that are reemployed after retirement. Some are probably getting their social security benefits. Let us see all the reemployeed personnel that have returned to their old positions at the same rate of pay.
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by BIll
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03/04/08 04:25 PM
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If you look at the low wages the Pinellas county school system pays it regular support people .You would see that the drop is the only way they can try to afford to retire.Not mangement aides,plant operators, groundkeepers,cafe workers,Maintance etc
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by Paulo
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03/04/08 04:22 PM
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300 million dived by 8000 empllyes equals 37000 a year, think you can hire 8000 people for that total?...This is smoke and mirrors for the governor and legislators to hide behind. This story is only about the 200 people that can stay on forever.
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by steve
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03/04/08 04:20 PM
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For PaThe Times story said 203 senior management employees and more than 7,700 regular ones are double-dipping. Undoubtedly, many of them "retired" with a wink and a nod, staying out 30 days and coming back as "new" employees.
Relatively few of th
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by Mike
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03/04/08 03:16 PM
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I am glad to see this stopped. State employees can feel a little bit of what the private sector has felt for several years now, in terms of decreasing salaries, benefits, and positions. Welcome to the real world.
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by cs
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03/04/08 03:08 PM
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I am a single parent working as a paralegal, haven't gotten a raise in 2 yrs., no retirement/health ins. period and I have to survive on $27K per yr. - so stop crying about not having 2 incomes!
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by mo
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03/04/08 02:40 PM
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I keep hearing about "can't live on the state retirement" What about us in private sector whose retirement is solely our own responsibility--try living on that! The Bureau of Labor Stats shows government workers make more than those in pvt sector!
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by ken
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03/04/08 01:56 PM
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good, now well get some of those cry babies to work the jails, prisons. theres already a big shortage now there will be a big big shortage of officers. you think u can take care of them go for it.
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by Chris
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03/04/08 01:24 PM
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The State needs to begin to pay a comparable wage to the Private sector. State employemnt HAD great retirement features but those features are slowly diminshing. If the retirement will begin to mirror private sector, the pay should follow suit.
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by John
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03/04/08 01:14 PM
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"they can't stop everyone already getting a pension and a salary."
They can fire them!
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by Jesse Attreau
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03/04/08 01:08 PM
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The taxpayers shouldn't be required to fund a worker's panacea for government employees. Yet that appears to be exactly what we do.
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by 15 YR STATE EMPLOYEE
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03/04/08 12:58 PM
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Maybe we haven't had raises in years because of rehiring retired employees at their same rate of pay! ALL double dippers should be forced out completely within 1 year from the bill. 30 years to save and plan is more than most other citizens have..
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by Anne
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03/04/08 12:34 PM
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Well, that pretty much settles it. After 30 years teaching the brats of this state and being unappreciated and abused by them and their parents, I will be gone when I hit 30 years. No DROP for me? You can HAVE this job.
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by jb
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03/04/08 12:30 PM
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It appears newspaper sales are down. Why else woould you create such a furor over nothing? Those who retired had to work many years to acheive the benefit. This is the USA, let them work if they want, we would have to pay someone else to do the job.
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by colleen
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03/04/08 12:11 PM
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greed, that is what is driving this country in to a HOLE!
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by Pamela Rainsong
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03/04/08 12:06 PM
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Do you really think a state employee who has retired will live long enough to retire twice? Probably Not. Do the math. So what if they retire and have to go back to work. Who benefits from all that program knowledge? YOU... the people we serve.
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by Adam
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03/04/08 12:05 PM
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Will this also apply to FSU senior administrators who are double dipping?
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by chares
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03/04/08 12:02 PM
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This is abused by a few, but needed by many. Teachers who 'retire' from floridas 50th in nation education system cannot live on their pension in FL, you work 30 years to get 38% of your pay. Teachers and cops live on that? they need to work for ins!
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by Mystified
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03/04/08 12:00 PM
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Look at the numbers. If there's something shady going on fix it but don't vent at state employees who can't retire and pay their HO insurance without two jobs. You're the same group who gripped about paying fire fighters and police officers last year
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by Paul
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03/04/08 11:52 AM
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I'd like for Steve to explain how the story is false and misleading. I hate no one, but I udnerstand the system, and this has always been a farse used to enhance not the public, but high paid old timers who need to go. Explain, please.
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by jim
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03/04/08 11:44 AM
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Ther should be a law established to go back and stop the past and future double dipping Otherwise we, the general public just have to wait until the die or everyone is broke paying these slobs.
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