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Will Florida tip the nomination?
Clinton's recent wins may make state's delegates crucial. Deja vu? Would a Florida revote make the crucial difference? Obama could get a second chance here and in Michigan. With Obama leading in delegates, what does his campaign favor?
By Adam C. Smith and Wes Allison, Times Staff Writers
Published March 6, 2008
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Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton handily won both the Florida and Michigan primaries, but the results don't count as of yet.
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[Getty Images]
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[Getty Images]
The Barack Obama campaign steadfastly refuses to consider seating the delegates based on those earlier contests that violated the party rules because that was the agreement before the votes were held. His name didn't appear on the Michigan ballot.
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Florida Democrats may be asked to go back to the polls for the presidential primary.
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's big wins in Texas, Ohio and Rhode Island on Tuesday not only launched her back into contention for the party's nomination, but also heightened the prospects of do-over elections in Florida and Michigan, two states whose primary results were declared invalid by national Democrats.
"It has to be seriously considered at this point, but it would have to be another statewide election," said Miami businessman Chris Korge, co-chairman of Clinton's national fundraising committee. "It's a recipe for disaster if Florida and Michigan are disenfranchised and don't get seated."
Both states were stripped of their delegates to the nominating convention as punishment for jumping ahead of their assigned place on the primary calendar. Elections were held anyway, but voters were told the results wouldn't count and the candidates didn't campaign.
Clinton won both states handily. Many observers expected the mess to simply go away after Sen. Barack Obama surged into the lead for the nomination, reeling off 11-straight wins. But hopes that he could use victories in Texas and Ohio to effectively knock Clinton out of the race -- and make the Florida-Michigan results irrelevant -- were dashed by her strong showing.
She made only modest gains against Obama's delegate lead, but the high-profile wins give her big credibility with voters and party leaders known as superdelegates and assure that accumulating enough delegates to claim the nomination will be a hard slog for both candidates. More than ever, delegates from Florida and Michigan would be prized.
"We have discussed many things, ranging from the plans for the general election to a potential alternative primary to the process for appealing to the credentials committee of the National Convention to seat our delegates as currently allocated," Democratic chairwoman Karen Thurman said Wednesday.
But holding another election would require overcoming big hurdles. Among them: Finding as much as $25-million to pay for a statewide primary or as little as $4-million to fund a vote by mail election; and getting the Obama and Clinton campaigns to agree on a solution. Their campaigns likely would be tapped to help financially, but there is little consensus about whether a solution is even possible.
Still, Clinton allies have suddenly shifted from insisting that Florida and Michigan delegations must be seated based on their January primary results to suggesting new elections could make sense.
"Let's let all of the voters go again if they are willing to do it," said Clinton adviser Terry McAuliffe Tuesday night on MSNBC. "Whatever we have to do to get people in the system, let's do it."
Democrats in Florida's congressional delegation were meeting Wednesday night to discuss options and hoped to have some ideas to propose to Obama and Clinton soon.
Seat those elected?
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a Clinton supporter, said she would prefer to seat delegates based on the Jan. 29 election results.
"But realistically, if that's unlikely or impossible, or practically speaking if we need to resolve this ... we need to come up with a fair process and have both campaigns agree that it's fair," said the Broward County Democrat.
The Obama campaign steadfastly refuses to consider seating the delegates based on those earlier contests that violated the party rules because that was the agreement before the votes were held. His name didn't appear on the Michigan ballot.
But his campaign says it would compete in any alternative election approved by the Democratic National Committee.
"We will work with whatever they work out. We would like to see Florida and Michigan represented," chief Obama strategist David Axelrod said Wednesday. "There have been a number of different formulations that have been suggested to accommodate that, but that's an issue for chairman Dean."
DNC chairman Howard Dean said Wednesday that he would welcome any new election that would bring Florida and Michigan into compliance.
One option advocated last fall by the DNC was to hold community caucuses. Michigan Democrats, who have a track record of holding caucuses, are looking at organizing caucuses in May or June. But the Florida Democratic party, especially sensitive to disenfranchising voters since 2000, dismisses that idea because caucuses tend to have small turnouts.
Another alternative is for Florida to appeal to the credentials committee of the DNC, but that could be tough because the committee is likely to be evenly divided among Obama and Clinton allies.
State leaders, Democrats and Republicans alike, moved Florida's primary early to increase the state's influence in the nominating process. The DNC stripped away the state's delegates and the Republican National Committee took half. Michigan received the same penalty.
That means the 1.7-million Florida Democrats who voted in the primary have no voice in the nomination and the 1.9-million Republicans who voted have half as much say as voters in other states.
Republican Gov. Charlie Crist and Democratic Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm on Wednesday jointly called on their national parties to ensure Michigan and Florida voters are fully represented in the nominating conventions.
"It's unconscionable to me that some party boss in Washington is not going to permit the people to be heard," Crist said at a news conference in Tallahassee. "That's not what America is all about."
Even with half their delegates yanked, Florida Republicans got their wish and played a key role in picking the GOP nominee. The irony for Florida Democrats is that they likely would have played a bigger role if Florida's primary had stayed in March.
"The only thing we accomplished was raising Charlie Crist's profile to be considered for John McCain's running mate," lamented Rick Boylan, a Democratic activist in St. Pete Beach.
Jennifer Liberto contributed to this report. Adam C. Smith can be reached at asmith@sptimes.com or (727)893-8241.
[Last modified March 6, 2008, 01:27:03]
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Comments on this article
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by Edna
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03/10/08 09:47 AM
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Dennis, the voters WERE informed when we made our choice. We have TV, internet, newspapers. No slick ads & glad-handing didn't make us any less informed. I know I was well aware of Obama & his record of voting "present", non-leading, & empty slogans.
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by Dennis
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03/08/08 07:12 AM
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People voted in election for property tax initiative and knew pres election didn't count. No campaigning. Obama unknown to many. Early Dec. voting was much stronger for Clinton than on electon day when more people became aware of Obama.
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by FLVoter
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03/07/08 12:29 PM
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Those that voted on Jan 29,Your votes have been counted. The DNC needs to step up and seat their delegates based on how the voters already voted...and move on PLEASE.Any re-voting would not officially or legally count.
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by Edna
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03/07/08 11:32 AM
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To Mike, who wrote: "Dems, you are not welcome in FL": how does it feel to be OUTNUMBERED by a group you do not welcome? Dems outnumber Repubs in FL, so get used to us, we aren't going anywhere. One of these elections, our votes might even count!
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by Edna
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03/07/08 10:41 AM
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We already voted in record #'s, w/all candidates on the ballot, so we don't need a re-do, but if it's the only way to get the Dean Brigade to count our votes, so be it. The voters of MI & FL deserve to be represented in the process. COUNT OUR VOTES!
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by Mike
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03/07/08 05:50 AM
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Dems, you are not welcome in Florida. Hillary should be in jail and Barak (sounds like a burp) should go back to the Middle East.
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by JIm
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03/06/08 08:28 PM
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Ahh The Democrats. Wasting tax money before the even get a chnce to get in office. I love it. What a party, they are truly unbelievable.
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by Larry
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03/06/08 07:53 PM
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I am not happy with the unbalanced/unfair tax voted in on Amendment 1. When can we schedule the do-over?
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by Tom
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03/06/08 06:08 PM
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The only reason I went to vote was I felt it was my obligation to do that and maybe they would count the votes later. It is crazy that we have to have a do over. JUST COUNT THE VOTES, everyone had their chance to vote then!
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by Larry
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03/06/08 05:12 PM
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Just let Howard Dean or the highest bidder pick the nominee.
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by jan
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03/06/08 04:49 PM
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I say we bring all Florida servicemen and servicewomen home from the war, since our state doesn't have a say in who is elected president. Apparently the sacrifice of their lives don't mean anything to the Democratic party, or the country. Insulting.
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by Sal
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03/06/08 04:46 PM
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I say the primary that was held was the one that counts. I'm going to find a constitutional lawyer to file suit.
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by Hoshi
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03/06/08 02:09 PM
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They made their statement when they didn't want our votes, don't sell our dignity FL, they will get our vote in Nov. DO NOT DO A DO-OVER.... NONONO
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by abby
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03/06/08 01:19 PM
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To do-over or not to do-overò026that is the questionò026whether ò018tis nobler in the minds of ..oh waitò026 Itò019s a mockery, any way you slice it!
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by abby
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03/06/08 01:18 PM
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And poor Florida! For all their shennanigans in attempting to hold an early primary so as to distinguish itself during primary season, any do-over would clearly be at the end of the primary season, the exact opposite of the intended outcome.
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by abby
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03/06/08 01:18 PM
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After holding 25 primaries the outcomes are now known. So, the impact of those wins will absolutely cloud the outcome of any do-over. It would be as tainted as Jerry Springer getting his do-over in Dancing with the Stars.
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by abby
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03/06/08 01:18 PM
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Look, Iò019m a Floridian and voted in the primary despite the fact that I knew full well my vote wouldnò019t count, much like in 2000. But those are the breaksò026and the times we live in, and political corruption.
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by abby
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03/06/08 01:17 PM
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Remember a do-over in kickball on the schoolyard playground? Seems like a bunch of whiney children just trying to get their way.
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by Chris
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03/06/08 01:14 PM
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Bottom line is Florida knew its delegates would not count if they moved their primary up, but they did anyway. Now they want taxpayers to pay for their mistake. I don't think so. We can't fund our state's own needs but we can fund a redo? WOW!
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by Cyndi
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03/06/08 12:51 PM
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NO DO OVERS! There are lots of us who changed to NP since our vote wouldn't count anyway. You can't go back now and change your minds DNC!
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by Michael
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03/06/08 12:16 PM
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If our Governor is so concerned about the Florida voters being disenfranchised, why did he go along with our GOP-controlled Legislature in moving our primary up knowing of the consequences? Now he just wants his pal McCain to face a weaker opponent.
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by Concerned
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03/06/08 12:09 PM
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Doesn't it upset everyone that took the time to go and vote, that your vote doesn't count anymore!!! No wonder people start lossing interest and don't vote. Was it the voter's fault we voted early? What Democracy!!!
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by John
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03/06/08 12:08 PM
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Reggie, the vote to move the primary was unanimous. Good try.
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by Henry
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03/06/08 12:07 PM
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I don't get this whole "disenfranchised" bit. Voters knew going in that their votes would NOT count yet they CHOSE to vote anyway;now they want to change the rules months later so they WILL count. The Clintons will stop at NOTHING to get her elected.
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by Theresa
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03/06/08 11:56 AM
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We in this country have the right to have our votes counted. Organizations have no right to take that away!
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by Jerry
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03/06/08 11:33 AM
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I believe ALL parties agreed that Florida votes would not count if they voted early. Of course now that Clinton will benefit she wants them to count. Lets not change what has happened but look to the future and change to make it right. Go figure.
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by Reggie
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03/06/08 11:02 AM
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Yes, lets hold a second primary because Tallahassee republicans moved the primary forward and as of now 1.7 million Florida voters have been disenfranchised. Make the DNC pay because the republicans don't have a chance in November.
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by Jennifer
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03/06/08 10:58 AM
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Joan, by your own logic, none of the delegates should be counted. The DNC made a decision to exclude the delegates. It seems they are the ones who made a decision they are now regretting.
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by Jane
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03/06/08 10:46 AM
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This whole mess is just another reason why FL and MI moved their primaries to begin with...to have more say in the election process because of the states' diverse population. Dems said your votes won't count - then so be it. No $$ needed for a redo!
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by Sarah
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03/06/08 10:45 AM
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Bill: How did the Clintons do this? The DNC called our delegates invalid and the DNC are the ones destroying our party from the inside. All we wanted was a chance to vote BEFORE some of the best candidates were out of it.
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by Amy
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03/06/08 10:35 AM
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Who ever is in charge should have thought of this scenario before changing the date. Now FL tax payers have to pay for recount? Votes should have counted in the 1st place on correct date. I agree with Don-what's next for America?
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by Jon
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03/06/08 10:19 AM
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Don, where do see the right to vote in the Constitution of the US? Perhaps your not recognizing that this is a party election, not a general election? ANd thus the party sets the rules.
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by Dave
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03/06/08 10:09 AM
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Elections were held anyway, but voters were told the results wouldn't count and the candidates didn't campaign. SO BE IT!!!
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by Kay
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03/06/08 10:01 AM
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No, Joan, you don't change the rules half way through the game. When people voted, they did so with the idea that it was symbolic. A "real" vote would have a different turnout and perhaps result. A do over is fair but DNC should pay for it.
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by Dave
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03/06/08 09:52 AM
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Hillary only gained 4 delegates in this weeks voting hardly enough to call this a change in direction. I am registering a party change today to make sure Obama gets my vote if we get to re-vote.
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