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Columns
Bottom appears to be near for housing prices
By JAMES THORNER, Times Staff Writer
Published March 7, 2008
On the ups and downs of the market, late economist Milton Friedman once noted that bulls make money and bears make money, but hogs get slaughtered. Friedman's point was that investors who wait for a market to bottom out tend to miscalculate the timing. Their standoffishness, motivated by a desire to maximize gain, costs them in the end. He was talking about stocks, but his lesson applies to housing. Here in the Tampa Bay area, rolling out the barnyard analogy is probably premature. A rough consensus of economists and analysts holds that median home prices have a way to fall before they're back in line with buyer expectations and incomes. But I confess Friedman's image came to mind after I listened to Realtors complain this week about the bargains on the market begging for buyers: bank foreclosures marked one-third off, $150,000 northeast St. Petersburg bungalows priced below $90,000, condos on clearance. Even builders are waxing conciliatory. A co-worker told me a southeast Hillsborough County builder voluntarily refunded his mother $46,000 midconstruction. The builder cut prices for new buyers and extended goodwill to established customers. Are such deals stimulating sales? Not much. It's as if buyers suspect a trap door lurks under the talk of price floors. Let's stipulate inflated home prices of 2005 deserved a nasty pin prick. Let's stipulate further that many sellers still dwell in the Land of Make Believe Where Every House is Made of Gold. Case in point is the investor who told me he's trying to sell the Clearwater condo he bought for $450,000 in 2004 for more than $900,000. He says foot traffic in his unit has been brisk, but he's been saying that for eight months. But I suspect that elusive price bottom is beginning to materialize, if mostly via foreclosures. Despite tough talk, banks aren't rejecting too many honest offers. With thousands of properties in default, expect mom-and-pop home sellers to join the race to the bottom. That's the point when buyers should heed Friedman's hog call. Wouldn't want to miss a rout on account of the snout. James Thorner can be reached at thorner@sptimes.com.
[Last modified March 6, 2008, 23:05:59]
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by Al
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03/11/08 02:03 PM
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The bottom is far away. Mr. Thorner's hunch based on foreclosures is retarded. I don't mind waiting a few more years to get deal of a lifetime on a second home.
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by KEV
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03/10/08 12:27 AM
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SAVE THIS ONE!! ... THE TIME IS NOW TO MOVE!!
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by Incredulous
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03/07/08 11:54 PM
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Haha, you "suspect" a price bottom is beginning to materialize, and you base your headline on it. You sound like one of those guessing economists. Come on. Yeah, yeah. And last Winter the Spring 2007 selling season was going to turn everything around
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by Mark
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03/07/08 11:43 PM
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curt is right. there are still way too many houses sitting for sale. the inventory has to dry up first. slow job growth is hurting that since people aren't moving into the area and buying houses. did a realtor write the article?
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by Joe
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03/07/08 11:39 PM
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don is the type of person that got us into this mess. taxes and insurance must be factored in when determining how much house you can afford. please take a basic personal finance class people. property taxes in FL are CHEAP!! try living in the NE.
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by cab
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03/07/08 10:19 PM
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We have many economic concerns not simply the price of a home. We're in an era of double digit inflation for many consumers. Fuel, food, everyday products, taxes, and services have shot up. Without assurance for relief, fear
will undermine recovery.
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by Kyle
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03/07/08 09:38 PM
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In my town they tore up my favorite local golf course to build condos with many unsold. 3 apt complexes within a mile of me converted to condos with absurd prices which have now fallen by a third. How many "properties" are really converted apts?
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by JIM
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03/07/08 05:48 PM
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It will get better when the inventory goes down. The rest is just speculation.
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by John
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03/07/08 05:29 PM
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If Florida eliminated property taxes for it's residents for 2.5% more in sales tax, all these houses will sell like hotcakes. We would be the envy of every state. People would flock here.
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by Rick
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03/07/08 05:16 PM
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Bottom line -the scheming/scams of Wall Street are far different than real estate. Pigs on Wall Street cheated to make their gains (inside trading, illegal influence, etc.). Pigs in real estate get slaughtered. Just ask your average speculator.
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by Pilgarlic
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03/07/08 04:59 PM
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Prices need to fall another 25% or more before they reach the long-term trend line (directly tied, yes, Lin, to incomes). At the current rate of decrease, that would be another year or so before prices hit botton. Then we start the long, slow march..
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by sara
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03/07/08 04:39 PM
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the cost to build is much higher today than only three years ago, and the falling dollar impacts construction costs. So even though the demand is less, it's not having the suggested impact on cost to build. You can't sell for less then costs for long
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by sara
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03/07/08 04:35 PM
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well you can't have it both ways folks. You can't ask your government to make sure houses can withstand 130 miles per hour wind, and limit the use of land, driving up the cost of land, and still expect a new home to be affordable.
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by kitty
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03/07/08 03:59 PM
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Don, if you can't afford the taxes you can't afford the home. Choose a less expensive home and you won't have trouble paying the taxes.
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by InflationSucks
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03/07/08 03:54 PM
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Prices need to come back down to reasonable levels where ordinary people can afford to buy and pay taxes and insurance on a house.Houses selling for 35k a decade ago sold for nearly 10x that 2 years ago-thats bizarre!Profiteers deserve to lose!
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by Curt
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03/07/08 03:52 PM
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These speculations are worthless. The fact is simple supply and demand. The supply of homes for sale is very high. The number of buyers is lower than the supply. The supply has not decreased so these guys are not correct, and this article is crap.
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by KD
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03/07/08 03:25 PM
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I think what Rick meant was so many elderly were displaced from their mobile homes during the real estate boom to make room for condos that probably were never built. I do think the bottom is here though. Prices are down to about 2003-2004 levels.
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by Jim
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03/07/08 02:23 PM
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Hey Rick, what do you know, Mr. Expert from a trailer park? Keep renting cause you will never own.
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by Fay
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03/07/08 01:26 PM
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Hey Don,dont you realize that since there is no state income tax,there has to be high property taxes?
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by ED
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03/07/08 01:11 PM
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Hey James Thorner, I have 6 units for sale on the beach. If you are so confidant, Ill sell them to uou for a song!
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by Lin
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03/07/08 12:57 PM
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Expect prices to fall until the total cost of the average area home - mortgage, insurance, taxes and home maintenance - are in line with the area's low average wages. Remember, low wages leave little discretionary income to save bigger downpayments
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by dylan
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03/07/08 11:57 AM
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They want you to beleive that prices are bottoming out. People you aint seen nothing yet!
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by Alex
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03/07/08 11:40 AM
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Take it from someone who's trying to sell a house: I am bearish on housing for at least the next year or so. Prices need to come down or income needs to come up. Supply needs to decrease or demand must increase.
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by David
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03/07/08 10:44 AM
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Now is the time for the County, elected officials and professionals alike to correct the heartache and financial ruin they have allowed, and drop all the asscessed values in the county to there pre-stupidity worth. By 33% is my best guess.
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by rick
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03/07/08 10:36 AM
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you caused it w/your greed now live w/it. it's called collective karma. the real question is did you learn your lesson or not? now stop being greedy and give the old people the trailer parks back.
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by Dave
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03/07/08 10:05 AM
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This is what comes of talking to realtors. Talk to people and one would conclude that this has a way to to go yet. Perhaps "hogwash" is too harsh, but I wouldn't rush in yet.
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by Rick
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03/07/08 07:01 AM
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With banks tightening lending, expect 2-3 more years of falling prices...
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by Don
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03/07/08 06:56 AM
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Iy's not the home price that scares me -it's the taxes! i can afford a home but not the taxes on a home. Govt needs to do something about that first. If the majority of my money goes to taxes and interest, it's not worth the money to buy.
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by bill
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03/07/08 06:52 AM
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Stanley Drukenmiller, formerly running George Soros' Quantum fund, once remarked about Quantum's success: "It takes courage to be a pig."
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by Bill
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03/07/08 06:50 AM
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Alan Abelson remarked in Barron's during the dot.com bubble, "Bulls make money, Bears make money, but Pigs make more money than everyone." Pigs can make money for a lot longer than you think. Remember how it was on the way up?
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