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Politics
Florida's vote-by-mail plan gains few fans
State party officials set to submit it to DNC.
By Adam C. Smith and Wes Allison, Times Staff Writers
Published March 11, 2008
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Obama and Clinton campaigns aren't fond of mail-vote idea.
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[Associated Press]
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For all the buzz about Florida Democrats gearing up for a statewide mail-in ballot, don't hold your breath.
Interviews with state and national Democratic leaders, as well as officials with the campaigns of Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama make clear that the idea of re-doing the Jan. 29 election using a ballot-by-mail system is not universally popular.
"The Democratic Party is going to run a mail-in election and they're going to police it and they're going to - I mean, I think it's a nightmare," senior Barack Obama strategist David Axelrod said Monday on MSNBC.
Yes, state party staffers are pushing ahead with a $10-million plan that could be submitted to the Democratic National Committee as early as this week. And yes, some high powered Clinton supporters, including strategist James Carville and Govs. Ed Rendell of Pennsylvania and Jon Corzine of New Jersey say they can raise tens of millions of dollars to pay for do-over Democratic primaries in Michigan and Florida.
But the hurdles are immense for pulling off an enormously high stakes election within the next three months:
- Growing skepticism from the Obama campaign and from key supporters of the Illinois senator. They note that Oregon spent 10 years developing and building up to a statewide mail election.
"Does anyone really believe we're going to get this right? And does anyone really want another screwed up election in Florida?," asked Tallahassee City Commissioner Allan Katz, a DNC member and top Obama supporter.
- Divisions among Clinton supporters about whether a new election, mail or otherwise, makes sense. In Florida, Sen. Bill Nelson is touting a vote-by-mail election, while U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is trashing the idea.
- Little help from the Democratic National Committee's chairman, Howard Dean, in reaching a compromise. Dean has yet to discuss the options with state Democratic chairwoman Karen Thurman.
- No consensus on even basic logistical and legal issues about whether the Democratic election should or must be run by the state. Gov. Charlie Crist says the state must run the election, but most Democratic leaders disagree.
Still, Nelson remains optimistic. His staff has been speaking with lawyers and elections officials in Oregon, which has used mail-in ballots statewide since 1998, and in Florida, including talks with state elections chief Kurt Browning.
The next step is submitting a plan to the DNC, which is expected to happen this week.
"In one week's time, we have gone from people saying 'impossible' to many people saying it's a strong possibility," said Dan McLaughlin, Nelson's spokesman. "We're very optimistic here. Now, what are the chances? I'm not going to put numbers on it. We realize there are so many things that could jump up."
Advocates of voting by mail see upside
The talk of do-over elections comes as the Democratic presidential primary heads toward a stalemate and the prospect that two important states, Florida and Michigan, will have had no voice in picking the nominee. The DNC stripped both states of all their delegates because they moved their primary dates to January, in violation of the national party's schedule.
The elections were held anyway, but with no delegates at stake the results don't count. Clinton won Florida by 17 percentage points, and won 55 percent of the vote in Michigan, where Obama's name was left off the ballot.
Florida's Democratic Party officials have been looking at the vote-by-mail idea for nearly a year as a way to comply with the DNC, but discarded it last year because they could not pay for it. Advocates of a mail-in vote see it as a way of getting Florida's delegates restored while at the same time building a voter contact list that could be a big help in the general election.
"There are a lot of pessimists out there who expect the Florida Democratic Party can't get the job done but in the past couple years we've proved them wrong time and time again," said Democratic Party spokesman Mark Bubriski.
How would voting by mail work?
In votes by mail, voters sign their ballot and the signatures are matched against state registration records. Because Florida maintains a central database of those signatures, it may be possible for the Florida Democratic Party to pay the state elections office to verify the signatures or even process the ballots.
Given the intense media attention on the presidential race and Florida, the party estimates as many as 3-million of roughly 4-million Florida Democrats might participate. With the mailing and counting of ballots handled by an accounting firm, all registered Democrats would receive a ballot with return postage, and the party would open many as 50 regional offices to help voters who may not have received a ballot by mail.
"Because of how advanced our voter file is now we would be able to prevent people from voting more than once," said Bubriski. "We could pull it off, and it certainly wouldn't be a disaster."
State Rep. Keith Fitzgerald of Sarasota, the ranking Democrat on the state House ethics and elections committee, said an accounting firm could ensure the integrity of the election just as they do when corporations have mail-in elections for directors.
"I think some kind of mail ballot is probably the only practical way to pull this off," said Fitgerald, an Obama supporter. "But you're going to have to have buy-in from the DNC, the state party, and both the campaigns. Unless they agree on ground rules, and they're going to have to do it quickly, I don't see anything happening."
Adam C. Smith can be reached at asmith@sptimes.com or (727)893-8241.
[Last modified March 11, 2008, 01:07:28]
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Comments on this article
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by Angry Dem
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03/12/08 01:59 PM
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Why do you think Hillary Clinton wants a Michigan and Florida to count: 1. because she doesn't think its fair that people got disenfranchised; 2. She won both states . Call me a cynic but I'm going to go--at least in part with possibility number 2.
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by Unamerican
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03/12/08 01:55 PM
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It might actually be worse to try to get a new election that leaving things the way they are. Matching signatures against a database has a greater potential to lead to another "2000" than leaving things the way they are.
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by Louis
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03/12/08 01:53 PM
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Florida chose to move ahead in violation of party rules, so they should face the consequences.
Why should a state that broke party rules get a brand new election, when states that followed the rules don't get anything?
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by Carrie
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03/12/08 12:54 PM
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Rules should count, split the delegates in half and be done with it. Clinton is done and should admit it NOW!!!
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by Anna
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03/12/08 10:59 AM
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Florida and Michigan broke the rules, so deal with it. If you ant to get ad ot someone for your vote not counting, get mad at Charlie Crist. Michigan didn't even have Obama on their ballots--one-sided much?
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by David
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03/12/08 12:30 AM
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Officials who haven't run any election right in 8 years now want to vote in a NEW way after we have spent all this money on voting machines. Just get 5 reputable polls of the state to be sanctioned on a certain day and settle it that way.
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by Gary D.
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03/11/08 11:21 PM
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Its clear that a mail in vote would not be fair. Obviously it's good (like any mess now) for Clinton. She approved party decision did not she? Do-over primaries in Michigan. If Florida does not like that they can fire Party leaders and wait 4 years.
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by Greg
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03/11/08 10:50 PM
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Facts: 1.7 mil Dem's voted in FLA. Neither candidate campaigned there. Were Florida voters asleep, uninformed?-were they banned from watching the deabtes?. None of the above. Redo? why on Earth?..count the votes, seat delegates..done!!
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by Blaine
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03/11/08 08:58 PM
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This was an engineered disaster, with Howard Dean and Donna Brazile leading the charge. The R Legislature tacked this 'new date' on to a bill that Crist would have vetoed if it were changed. Gaming the system from the start. FIRE HOWARD DEAN NOW.
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by randall
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03/11/08 07:47 PM
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VOTE BY MAIL AND OTHER METHODS TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MORE VOTERS SHOULD BE EXPLORED IN AMERICA. BUT, TO THROW TOGETHR SOMETHING IN A MATTER OF WEEKS IS JUST ASKING FOR A FIASCO. ONCE THE RULES ARE SET IN ANY CONTEST, UNLESS ALL AGREE, NO CHANGES!
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by sandy Ericson
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03/11/08 06:34 PM
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Don't we have list of the names and addresses all registered voters for both parties? What's the problem?
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by Rachel
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03/11/08 06:24 PM
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The economy's a mess. No more talk of another vote being discussed. Michigan and Florida voted. Voters didn't make this mess.Political idiots screwed up..penalize,fine or fire them.Count the votes as they stand, give out the delegates and move on.
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by JOE
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03/11/08 05:58 PM
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I THINK BRUBRISKI IS EITHER COMING OFF AS NAIVE, OR AS A CLINTON SUPPORTER HOPING TO PULL OFF ANOTHER FLORIDA VOTER FRAUD FIASCO! HOW DISPICABLE AND UNTRUSTWORTHY A MAIL IN PRIMARY WOULD BE. YOU MUST HAVE REGISTERED VOTERS VOTE IN PERSON W/ID'S
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by Alan
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03/11/08 05:39 PM
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I have voted as a democrat for all my voting years. If my last vote doesn`t count I will NOT vote democrat again!
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by Roy
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03/11/08 05:07 PM
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Our esteemed Republican leaders in Tallahasse knew if they moved the primary to Jan, there would be a problem seating delegates for the Dems. It is engineered to get McCain elected so we can attack Iran. Adm. Fallon just retired you do the math.
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by Chris
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03/11/08 04:55 PM
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So what if they didn't campaign here. With television, magazines and internet, it's not like we didn't know who the candidates were. We voted - stop wasting time and money. Who gets to compare signatures to reg cards? - hanging chads all over again.
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by chris
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03/11/08 04:51 PM
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I already voted to make my voice heard, and it was heard, even tho I knew it may not count, as did a record # of people. If you didn't vote cause you didn't care enough to have your voice heard, shame on you.
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by FormerFLDemocrat
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03/11/08 04:38 PM
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The DNC imposed sanctions so there should be no second vote. Suck it up and let the game play out then learn from the mistakes.
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by stephanie
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03/11/08 04:08 PM
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vote by mail-NO WAY! Democrates didn't want my vote - they are not going to get it now. Use it or Loose It! The "Peoples Choice" I NO longer trust Good ol Charlie to put the people of Florida first. He is proven to have his own agenda.
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by GARY
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03/11/08 04:06 PM
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THIS IS THE UNITED STATES. THE COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON THE ONE VOTE PER PERSON DREAM. THE VOTES SHOULD HAVE BEEN COUNTED AND THE PEOPLE RUNNING ALLOWED TO PRESENT THEIR VIEWS IN THE STATE...LETS FIX THIS!
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by onomar
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03/11/08 04:04 PM
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Trying to overrule the rules once she agreed, Clinton is now known to the rest of the world as a mean and shameless old woman certainly not to be trusted or respected.
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by Pam
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03/11/08 03:29 PM
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Fire the leaders of the FL Democrat Party & elect new ones. In the meantime, of course we want a new vote and to count. I for one am disappointed that all I hear from Mr.Obama's people is that they don't want my vote. Okay so now you won't have mine.
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by Steve
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03/11/08 03:06 PM
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Its clear that a mail in vote would be the fairest. Obviously the last vote cannot be counted, and not allowing Florida to vote seems unseemly. I support Obama and realize he could loose FL because the uneducated tend to go her way, but its fair.
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by Rich
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03/11/08 02:00 PM
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Please don't perpetuate the Michigan myth: Obama's name was not "left off" the ballot in that state. OBAMA REMOVED HIS NAME FROM THE MICHIGAN BALLOT to obtain tactical advantage in IA and NH.
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by ken
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03/11/08 01:58 PM
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they will have every mexican filling these things out in mexico,,,get the picture
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by CP
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03/11/08 01:53 PM
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A revote by mail is the only fair way to proceed. The original primary cannot count because none of the candidates were allowed to campaign in Florida. Also, many voters did not turn out because they were told their vote would not count. Go Obama!
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by Stuart
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03/11/08 01:32 PM
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Will there be new voter registration allowed? Since the elections in these states were disqualified, I am assuming nobody made an effort to register new voters? Definitely favors an old party standby like Clinton if new voters would be excluded.
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by Linda
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03/11/08 01:29 PM
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My mother lives in Florida. She voted for Hillary once. She'll vote for Hillary again. Never, ever Obama.
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by Jesse
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03/11/08 01:28 PM
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The first vote CANNOT count! Many people stayed home because they were told the vote wouldn't count. Counting it now would be voter disinfranchisement. You all knew the rules early on and you broke them. Too bad!!
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by lex
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03/11/08 01:03 PM
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They don't have enough time to pull this off in a fair and equitable fashion.
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by Matt
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03/11/08 12:42 PM
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The first vote was nothing more than an exhibition game. The next one is the regular season and counts in the standings. A mail in vote would be superb. Oregon is very successful with this method and gets a large turnout.
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by Neil
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03/11/08 12:11 PM
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Let's have Floridians pay for another election! Sounds like "vote early, vote often" to me. Can we say "double dippin'?" And whose to say The Democrat voters wouldn't change their minds from the first vote?
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by Frank
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03/11/08 12:06 PM
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How do you spell stupid? D-e-m-o-c-r-a-t, Democrat = stupid.
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by Fred
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03/11/08 11:41 AM
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USE LOTTERY COMPUTERS
as far as I know, the lottery computers are the only thing that doesn't screw up.
On a certain day, fill in your SS # and vote for BA or HC.
Of course it would cost you a dollar. 7-11's won't do it for free.
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by Dave
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03/11/08 11:32 AM
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Go for it Florida. I live in Oregon and we have voted by mail successfully for a decade now and it works quite smoothly. Also because of the ease of voting our state's rate of voting is very high.
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